SEALs VS. Deltoids

[tfwmissions]

This is primarily directed to people who are or have been SEALs, however, if you can give any FACTS or intellgent information concerning this then please do so. We all have heard how hard it is to become a frogman!!! First you must endure the most intense, most demanding, most gruling training in the world, and somewhere along the line when your all out of "guts" then you got to go and find some more somewhere. Well, I have heard that even the best SEALs don't make the cut for Delta. That's not just SEALs either, that's SF, Ranger, Para Rescue, and Recon as well. What is it that makes Delta so much better than SEALs??? How come even the best SEALs can't become a Deltoid??? What does the Deltiod haft to do that the SEAL does not??? What does Delta force look for when they are picking who they want to be possible Deltoids??? I have heard from a friend that did a tour in SF that even some of the guys on "A" team in SF that he looked up to and admired were NOT chosen to be Delta!!! I guess my question is just why??? Thanks and God bless!!!

[Wazz]

tfw
Delta Forces are Army.

For more on Delta Forces go to: http://www.specialoperations.com/Army/Delta_Force/default.html

[Gokusfusion]

This is primarily directed to people who are or have been SEALs, however, if you can give any FACTS or intellgent information concerning this then please do so.


I am not a SEAL or in Military. Delta is very secret and not a whole lot is known about them.

1. Their said to be among the worlds best at sharp shooting.

2. Their said to be the worlds best at hostage rescue and Close quater battle(Urban Warfare).

3. I learned on this board that some of them have SCUBA.

4.They often dress in civilian clothing to get into the danger zone undetected.(Black Hawk Down,a Delta did that)

5.You need to know your languages.

6. They have specialized reconaissance(From what I read,Delta's went Scud missle hunting beside British SAS in Desert Storm in Iraq.)


We all have heard how hard it is to become a frogman!!! First you must endure the most intense, most demanding, most gruling training in the world, and somewhere along the line when your all out of "guts" then you got to go and find some more somewhere. Well, I have heard that even the best SEALs don't make the cut for Delta.


Delta Force has a huge drop out rate training session as well as the SEALs do. At the point of selection and Delta training,even some of your SF guys,and Rangers may not can bare it.. (I'm not criticizing! Anyone of these guys could kick my arse..) I am just stateing facts on the reality of Delta Training.

Delta Force usually recruites Army Mostly,Like you said SF,and Rangers. Also I believe they do get 101 Airborne as well sometimes(Maybe Wrong).

Delta Force will sometimes get guys from other branches if they show huge amounts of potential,and have everything their looking for.



What does the Deltiod haft to do that the SEAL does not???


Hard to say really,someone else on the board might can answer this question better then I can. You won't hear much about Delta's Mission's.. The only Mission's I know of is: <b>In 1979 attempted hostage rescue in Iran at an American Embassy.</b>

<B> During Panama Delta's had to fight their way down a hotel at extreme close quater combat.</b> (I was told this by a ranger friend,correct me if wrong.)

<b>In Desert Storm as I mentioned earlier,they searched for SCUD Missiles along side of British SAS.</b>

<b>A few Delta's helped out Rangers in Somalia,very brave comrades both units.</b>

<b>Also recently I read a article on the Delta's and Green Berets arriving via Black Hawk Helicopters at Omar's compound in Afganistan and Rangers acted as a diversion group whom infilterated Omars private air strip. Their objective was to nab or kill Omar himself,but either their calculations had been wrong or he slipped out undetected.. More then 20 taliban fighters greeted the Americans and pre-breifings a fire fight broke out,and all enemy units lie dead. US. Teams sufford minor shrapnel wounds and gatherd up some guns and ammo and quickly blew them up,then departed... I got this straight out of a Soldier of Fortune Magazine.. The mission was techinically failed(so the magazine says) but it clearly showed Omar and Binladed that during USA's first month in the war,it could enter when,were it wished in Afganistan.. Try reading Soldier Of Fortune Magazines(if some of you don't already) they're are great reads!</b>

That is about it on the Delta Force Missions that I know of.. Of course they have ran alot more you know lol..

What does Delta force look for when they are picking who they want to be possible Deltoids???


1. They look for extremally good marksmen.

2. Bilingual(speaking 2 languages) if not trilingual etc...

3. Obviously very Smart/Intelligent and skilled in the art of war.

Someone else will have to help you with what else they look for. I really don't know..

Still SEALs and Special Force soldiers are some of the first men in for the job,they have capablitilies beyond the average human mind.

Oh by the way look at DevGru. It's selected SEALs and they are also highly trained and a counter terrorism unit like Delta Force.. DevGru is more unless the new SEAL team 6. (correct me if wrong)

All SEAls and other Spec Op guys are great at what they do,but DevGru is probably in comparison with Delta's.. I don't know a whole lot about either one of them. I just know they're both counter terroism units.

I hope I helped you out some to a extent..

God Bless..

Jason.

[Wannabe_SF_Soldier]

During Panama Delta's had to fight their way down a hotel at extreme close quater combat.


It wasn't a hotel, it was a prison, and it was to rescue Kurt Muse.

[Gokusfusion]

It wasn't a hotel, it was a prison, and it was to rescue Kurt Muse.


I stand corrected,thank you.


God Bless.

Jason.

[Gokusfusion]

It wasn't a hotel, it was a prison, and it was to rescue Kurt Muse.


By the way Wanna be how did the mission turn out? Any Deltas injured or fatalities? I'm interested to hear a little bit about this prison raid. Thanks a bunch.

God Bless.

Jason.

[elpaninaro]

Thanks to all for some interesting info in this post. Delta is a pretty fascinating group to say the least. I have not done much reading on them, but "Commandos" by Douglas C. Waller has a good section discussing Delta.

TWF, it is kind of a tough question you ask. I would see this as comparing apples to oranges really. The fact that one could do well in Delta and not in SEALs or vice versa seems to me to be like comparing a Ferrari with a Lamborghini (just to use a cheesy analogy.) Both far outdo the competition, but they are not the same machine.

One thing that seems to be true of Delta is that many are asked to try out- sort of a "by invitation only" kind of thing- there is not exactly an open gate with a big sign for trainees to come in and apply. It also appears to me that Delta guys are often men with extensive military experience. Unlike the SEALs where one can go to BUDs right after A school or OCS, it appears to me that for Delta one needs to prove themselves in the field for quite a long time before trying out- as in several years. I have noted many of the accounts I have read refer to men who are pretty high in either the enlisted or officer ranks indicating a long period of service.

I dunno. I use the word "seems" because Delta is the last Special Forces unit that is known to the public that has managed to remain highly secret in its methods. I have not read or heard much of anything that was easily corroborated, so hard to state anything as fact. Just saying what appears to be the case.

[Wannabe_SF_Soldier]

By the way Wanna be how did the mission turn out?



Here is a link to the full story. http://www.specialoperations.com/Operations/Just_Cause/Acid_Gambit/default2.html

[Gokusfusion]

Here is a link to the full story. http://www.specialoperations.com/Operations/Just_Cause/Acid_Gambit/default2.html


Thank you.


God Bless..

Jason.

[s354026]

Oh by the way look at DevGru. It's selected SEALs and they are also highly trained and a counter terrorism unit like Delta Force.. DevGru is more unless the new SEAL team 6. (correct me if wrong)

sorry to point out. DevGru came after sealteam 6. The seal team 6 was disbanded after the Richard Mecinko(don't know how to spell the name) flak about misappropriation of funds. To quiet down the scandal the navy disbanded Seal team 6 and formed DevGru in its place

[Gokusfusion]

sorry to point out. DevGru came after sealteam 6. The seal team 6 was disbanded after the Richard Mecinko(don't know how to spell the name) flak about misappropriation of funds. To quiet down the scandal the navy disbanded Seal team 6 and formed DevGru in its place



Yeah... That's why I said DevGru is more unless the new SEAL Team 6. DevGru has taken its place,and yeah I know what you mean about Richard Marcinko..


Good luck and God Bless.


Jason..

[IceHeart]

Don't know if tiss'll help much but two books about Delta I read are really interesting, you might want to read them aswell.

'Inside Delta Force' by Eric L. Haney
'Delta Force' By COL. Charlie Beckwith (Ret.)

Both of them were members of the team when it first became operational, or rather Haney was, as Beckwith created it, but both books are really good reads.
Hope this helps,

Ice Heart

[Knp_2002]

Well NOt more then a month ago i was talkign to a Marine Sniper which had worked hand in hand with the Delta boys He told me That You Must have 7 to 10 yrs Of Service in a Branch and Had Many Tours in open Combat

[speeddemon]

Delta and the SEALs dont do the same thing. Like someone said earlier, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Delta is strictly counterterrorism(outside of the u.s.). DevGru would be a better comparison; Their mission is also counterterrorism. The way I would judge each group's success is to ask myself how many missions i have heard of them being involved in. The only way you would hear about recent missions is if they screwed up. I've heard of Delta some. Haven't heard of DevGru at all. Hmmmmmmm.
DevGru vs. Delta
DevGru vs. Delta
Definitely DevGru...
<justin>

[Gokusfusion]

Haven't heard of DevGru at all.



I actually agree with you there alot. I haven't heard anything on DevGru missions at all. I mean like you said,sure Deltas are extremally secreative,but you </b>never hear</b> anything on DevGru,unlike Delta you hear a few things here and there. I still would say that Delta and DevGru are good competitors,they both are amazing at what they do. Think about it this way,sure you do not hear anything about DevGru,but you know they have got to kick *** since they are hand selected SEALs who go through more specialized training.. SEALs kick *** bad enough,I can't really imagine how elite DevGru is,it has to be out of this world!!

So we all know Delta's and DevGru are elite,along with other special operation units. Every Soldier is elite in his own way,for he has bravery to stand up,and take the chance of dieing fightin for freedom.


God Bless.

Jason.

[Mac679]

What does Delta force look for when they are picking who they want to be possible Deltoids???


1SFOD-Delta looks for competent, professional Non-commissioned officers in the United States Army who happen to be excellent soldiers with the necessary rank, time in service and age requirements.


have heard from a friend that did a tour in SF that even some of the guys on "A" team in SF that he looked up to and admired were NOT chosen to be Delta!!!

Delta is extremely selective. The necessary requirements to pass Selection are classified. They look for men who can fill a very specific niche in the SOF community and work well alone or in a team. Anyone in the Army can try to become Delta

Gokusfusion
re: Somalia
Delta's job was to do the actual building work, B Co., 3d Ranger Bn provided the security force

I second Iceheart's book recommendations.

speeddemon,
The way I would judge each group's success is to ask myself how many missions i have heard of them being involved in. The only way you would hear about recent missions is if they screwed up. I've heard of Delta some. Haven't heard of DevGru at all. Hmmmmmmm.
My we're dense aren't we? Think with me now, missions Delta screwed up... Ah I've got it, two failed Delta missions. Operation Eagle Claw and Operation Gothic Serpent.
Operation Eagle Claw:
Mission: Rescue American civillians being held hostage at the American Embassy in Teheran, Iran.
Reason why failed: Chopper repositioning to refuel accidentally collided with C130 carrying fuel. Compromised desert landing strip at Desert One and an inadequate amount of helicopters to carry out the mission
Result: Delta loaded back up on the remaining C130s and flew home.
Lessons Learned/Reinforced: Chance and Mr. Murphy are a pain in the ***.

Operation: Gothic Serpent
Mission: A Delta unit assisted by a Ranger Company and elements of the 160th SOAR conducted operations to capture top leaders of a clan led by Mohammed Farrah Aidid in Mogadishu, Somalia.
Reason why failed: oh yeah, wait that's right-the mission was successful...
Reason why successful: All targets on 03OCT93 were captured. More Somalis put in body bags than Americans.
Lessons Learned/Reinforced: When out numbered and surrounded, superior firepower and mental attitude are vital.

Any more dumbass comments?

[Gokusfusion]

Gokusfusion
re: Somalia
Delta's job was to do the actual building work, B Co., 3d Ranger Bn provided the security force




Yeah I knew that Delta was to gather up people in Somalia and infilterate buildings. Deltas are good soldiers,by the way mac you are a SF soldier right?(could be wrong) Also I remeber you making a post to my post about infantry,have you got any suggestions on going infantry? Thanks.

God Bless..


Jason

[Mac679]

nope, not SF, just a grunt

[Romulus]

Hey Mac, hows it going with your paperwork??
RIP rematch anytime soon?
Just nozy..
Romulus.

[Mac679]

screwed the pooch with pushups on the PT test ( weirdest thing, never had it happen before ), got everything else; and of all the indignities-my unit wouldn't let me recycle...

[Romulus]

What a fuc*ing bummer, what´s the next move then?
Are you going to stay grunt or do you have a contingency plan?

Romulus.

[Gokusfusion]

nope, not SF, just a grunt



Oh I see,I visited your site a while back,and assumed you were a Green Beret. I hear infantry is pretty bad... But how do you like it? I am thinking of going infantry myself,so I figured I'd ask..

God Bless.

Jason.

[Mac679]

What a fuc*ing bummer, what´s the next move then?
Are you going to stay grunt or do you have a contingency plan?


Like any good grunt, I always have a backup plan, if not several *EG*

[Romulus]

Like any good grunt, I always have a backup plan, if not several *EG*

*SMILE*
Romulus.

[A62]

just a grunt

Mac,
Most of my best friends were "just grunts". Some of the finest people I know. Heck, I was even an "overpaid" grunt. I know your goal is Ranger and I wish you the best on that endeaver. But, always be proud of that 11Bravo MOS. My biggest gripe was I couldn't get a CIB because of my Arty MOS even though I spent plenty of time in the "bush".
My 02 on the Iranian Hostage Rescue atempt. Yes, Murph reared his ugly old head, but I think the mission was doomed formthe start. What started out as a small, conpartmnetalized(sp) operation turned into a very large multi-service operation. Too many people to sign off and too many inputs. Also, was controlled at the NCA level. Why we don't give the mission parameters and let the operaters plan and execute I don't know.
Mac, when you reach your goal of recoeving the "Scroll" send a Jpeg, would love to see.
A62 out

[Stoner68]

In the long run SFOD is much more selective than the SEAL program or any other existing program that can be spoken of. I would hope that these folks do not get the sensationalizing that the SEAL program has gotten.Not in the best interests of either program.

[STeVe_C]

I'm wondering if the U.S. Government has a team made up of THEE best, whether picked out from Army Delta Force, Navy SEALs (D.E.V.G.R.U. or not), Marines, CIA, FBI, ATF, maybe even LOCAL SWAT, and all government tactical teams! There's no reason why they wouldn't maybe recruit THEE best from ANYONE even civilian if they're good enough for this Special Government tactical group. Probably NEVER heard of. This is what I wonder about, and I like to use my imagination. So no one come down on me TOO hard for saying this, but just think of it, it's NOT impossible what I say, but probably very likely to have happened already.

Now I know this is very imaginative, but you never know it COULD be true, conspiracy theory or not.

Again, I like letting my imagination run wild when it comes to secret government stuff. I think it's just cool to think of.

And finally, about the SEALs vs. Delta issue:

SEALs come from Navy personell, or Marines. Delta come from any Army personell as far as I've heard. But, we can't compare SEALs to Delta Force. Rather, DEVGRU (Once SEAL Team 6, led by Richard Marcinko) is the Counter-Terrorist group of the Navy SEALs, as Delta Force is to the Army. Therefore we have to say who's better, DEVGRU or Delta Force. Both are Classified Top Secret I believe, so whichever CT group is better you'll never know for sure unless you're in both groups in one lifetime, or you become the President of the United States of America. I guess it's left up to roomers, probably biased in their origin, or your wildest imagination like the one I have above about the possible 'Top Secret Government Counter-Terrorist Tactical Unit'.

Conclusion: Be thankful they're (DEVGRU, Delta and all of our Armed Forces) on our side!

Steve

[IceHeart]

My 02 on the Iranian Hostage Rescue atempt. Yes, Murph reared his ugly old head, but I think the mission was doomed formthe start. What started out as a small, conpartmnetalized(sp) operation turned into a very large multi-service operation. Too many people to sign off and too many inputs. Also, was controlled at the NCA level. Why we don't give the mission parameters and let the operaters plan and execute I don't know.


I agree on that one. Not too mention the fact that some people seem to blame Delta for what happened. It's not like they did special chants and spells to create the storm which took out the helo, or make one of em crash into the tanker. It wasn't their fault that all that happened and murphy screwd them, yet some people seem to think that Delta did it wrong. It doesn't make sense to me.

Ice Heart

[Gokusfusion]

I'm wondering if the U.S. Government has a team made up of THEE best, whether picked out from Army Delta Force, Navy SEALs (D.E.V.G.R.U. or not), Marines, CIA, FBI, ATF, maybe even LOCAL SWAT, and all government tactical teams! There's no reason why they wouldn't maybe recruit THEE best from ANYONE even civilian if they're good enough for this Special Government tactical group. Probably NEVER heard of. This is what I wonder about, and I like to use my imagination. So no one come down on me TOO hard for saying this, but just think of it, it's NOT impossible what I say, but probably very likely to have happened already.



All I know of is CIA Special Operation personells.. I know that some of them are Ex-SEALs and other military branches. I'd say that DevGru and Delta are probably the most top secret units USA consist of.(Maybe wrong)

as Delta Force is to the Army. Therefore we have to say who's better, DEVGRU or Delta Force


Delta Force is around 90% Army,they do recruite from other branches if there is a soldier who has everything they're looking for. That's rare though,it's usually selected Green Berets,Rangers,and 101 Airborne soldiers that get the tryouts. Remeber they must have tons of hands on combat experience and top notch guys.


God Bless.


Jason.

[STeVe_C]

Aggression would be good for a Spec Ops team, as long as it's controlled. That's what I hear SEALs do, controlled aggression. If you're not aggressive, you'll probably hesitate, and if you hesitate, you're putting yourself and your platoon in danger. And if you don't control that aggression, then you'll be too wild and do stupid things (Like in the movie Navy SEALs '89. If you watch Charlie Sheen in one part, he disobeys an order from his superior, and one of the SEALs dies because of it, he was aggressive, but not controlling it.) I know this is a movie, but it sets a good example for what I mean to say about controlled aggression, and the lack thereof. I'm not a SEAL, everyone knows that, but I'm learning about them recently with a couple of books, and a few video's.

So I guess your friend couldn't control his aggression? Did they give him a chance to see if he could control it?

I think the more aggression you have, the better (in war that is) But the more you have, the more you must control. It's like money, the more you have the better, but the more you have, the more you must have places to put it, and control it, and not lose it, and protect it, and of course HOW AND WHEN TO SPEND IT!

Anyway, that's my two cents on "Aggression". I hope it was right, or, if a SEAL wants to correct me, please do. I'm still learning anyway. I just guess I had to say aomething about it.


P.S. About the background check, psychological test, etc. That probably goes for DEVGRU also. I think it might go for anyone that has a top security clearance. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, after all it's just a guess, but more of a logical one I would think.

Steve