Are there any women navy seals??

[emrah]

Are there any women navy seals??

[Pecos]

OH MY LORD NO!!!!! It's already starting!!!

Ol' betsy has risen from the graves, and she's stinkin' up a storm!!!

Emrah, to answer you, NO, there are no women in the Teams.



Pecos out-

[Thermaleye]

That 'Posted by' note sure does give things away!! ROTFLMAO

[Hawkens85]

Ol' betsy has risen from the graves, and she's stinkin' up a storm!!!


Such a pity. About three days old and decade-old paterns are arising again....

Hawk out.

[Hawkens85]

Ol' betsy has risen from the graves, and she's stinkin' up a storm!!!


It's a shame, really. Only about three days old and decade old "discussions" are arising again....

Hawk out.

[futurefrogman2969]

you should check out www.sealchallenge.navy.mil , if you want to know the Navy's official policy

[Panda]

ROTFL!! are we counting GI Jane? *cheeky grin*

[Pollard]

Yes it does. Teh only Women I have seen in the Navy Seals is G.I. Jane but that was just a movie.

- Pollard

[Angel923]

Navy Seals is G.I. Jane but that was just a movie.

<font=jester><font color="#000099"><b><font size1>- Pollard
But, gee, wasn't that real? Isn't Demi Moore really like that? Are you telling us that it was just "reel"?
I am shocked, simply shocked.
No women SEALs.
Next thing you're gonna tell me is that the SEALs don't <u>want</u> any women on their teams. Say it ain't so, Joe. ((((((snicker))))))) Who was the comshacker who always snickered like that? I can't remember her name. </font></font></font></b>

[Pixie]

Oh Gawd . . . . *rolls eyes*

[ReconDoc32]

!!!NO!!!

[Strikex411]

- Pollard
But, gee, wasn't that real? Isn't Demi Moore really like that? Are you telling us that it was just "reel"?
I am shocked, simply shocked.
No women SEALs.
Next thing you're gonna tell me is that the SEALs don't want any women on their teams. Say it ain't so, Joe. ((((((snicker)))))))



I have to (((((((((snicker)))))))))) meself -- This is the most replies made to any subject on the board!

Strikex411

[yahyamoyoni]

yahya
HELL NO .THEY CANT MAKE IT TO THE TEAM.

[Spiritman]

Yeah, but what about divorced women? I think their tougher and can do it! Come on give em a chance.
Spiritman out
hehe

[tomysh]

You wana fantasize?Take a woman.You wana figth ?Take Aseal.In Holywood they can have anything,the sea is mercyles,no second chance for mistakes!!!!!Keep that in mind.

[zharkman1]

I am a male, and I do believe no women should be allowed in the Navy SEALS. But I feel there is a need for a new Special Forces unit just for women... Basically, I'm proposing to allow women to go into combat, but only doing Special Forces operations and activities. In China's military there is a Special Forces like team that consists of only women. And they are highly trained like men to jump, shoot, blow up lots a stuff, recon, etc... What would happen if no one expected a women capable of doing secret operations, that include recon, blowing stuff up, etc... The enemy is expanding their field of attack. It is a new strategy we should take in bettering our unconventional warfare tactics. ...But just maybe we shouldn't do what China has done to better her military, because it is inhumane... hmm... I guess I'll let the higher ups decide on this one...

[hazmat]

Yea!!! And women can bleed for a week and they don't die!! UMMMMM...

[Se7en]

This is simply my opinion, but it seems to me that for men, its easier to blend in with the enviorment then it is women. Making men better for Special Forces. I really don't think that an all women spec. forces team would be a good idea. I strongly believe that women can go into combat, just not in the special forces....
-Se7en-

[Stoner68]

The question should read " Do we choose our best qualified candidates to become SEALS "?
The answer is yes!! Other people not qualified to become a SEAL can contribute successfully in many ways. Enough with socially engineering our military. Do you want the best or the most diverse? As we rely more on less ,I for one think all of our standards should increase ,especially the physical requirements.

Stoner

[FurstysZoe]

I think thats unfair, but if they think that's better...
In Germany we have "Woman seals". It isn't the same - of course, but it's like the navy seals. Doing most things like navy seals and training is the same I think.
And I have to say Thanks that I'm one of them.

[CaptMoroni]

Why should we worry about women in the teams? Most men can't make it either!!

[seal420]

Wow. I oughta move to Germany and become a "Woman SEAL" if things don't work out here....the only thing is I can't speak German...

Cadet Ensign Ingram
Northwestern High School NJROTC
Adelphi, Maryland

[Stoner68]

There you go! Sounds like you have got the right idea! The Germans are always ahead of the curve. Good luck over there.

Stoner

[fish78]

There you go! Sounds like you have got the right idea! The Germans are always ahead of the curve. Good luck over there.

Stoner


LMAO!

[SeaHawk123]

I am a Female and I do believe that Women should be allowed in the Navy SEALS. I feel their are women out there that would and could take the challenge to become a SEAL if allowed and I feel they could pass. It is also known that women can withstand more PAIN then men can. To all you young women out there just remember You Can Do Anything You Want To Do If You Put Your Mind To It!!!!!!!! Who knows maybe someday they will let women take the challenge to become a SEAL.....

[Stoner68]

I hear they are recruiting in Germany. Good luck.

[EmbraceTheHate]

If a chick could do my job, I'd quit today !

[Sweetbriar]

Horsehockey. No one can do anything they want to do just because they've put their mind to it any more than thinking I'm a little teapot, short and stout, makes me one. It's a lovely little phrase suitable for encouraging children to try harder, but this subject is a big, bad and VERY ugly sort of reality. As regards the subject of pain, I have a scientific experiment for you to try. Find two dozen gung ho gals who are willing to rise to the challenge without someone rolling out the red carpet for them first. Have them train up BUD/S' graduate physical standards and skills on their own time. Surely you can find a feminist group willing to fund the project. Remember, if they are equal to the guys, then they'll be able to do it in the same amount of time with the same results, right? RIGHT? THEN come back and tell everyone how you think everything ought to be, not before.

[Stoner68]

No comments have been made the way you state them. You are now stereotyping men and that is wrong ,unless wrong is only one way. Tell me ,do you want the best for our Services or do you want equality as you say? Here is my analogy,at the average level maybe women can do as well as men ,but look at professional athletes,do you mean to tell me that there are a number of women who can compete physically with these top athletes? The overall physical differences are too much at the highest levels and therein lies the problem. The standards would have to be reduced and that would put the best in harm's way. Is that what you want? The average Joe Potato down the street is not how to measure a SEAL or any other group of our Elite Forces. Too many people get on line saying they want to be this or that ,talk has cheapened the reality of the situation. All of our Special Forces can be considered the best of the best and I have seen top level college athletes not be able to pass muster on these standards. It is unfortunate but that is reality and if you are a team player you would want the best ,not the most diverse. So become part of the overall team first. Women do serve key roles and are very much part of the overall team and contribute much. You are obsessed with this issue to the point of not fully understanding what this is about. Take some time to think this through.

Stoner

[L43]

No..theres not but there should be......its a bunch of bull if you ask me...i would love to be a SEAL but the goverment doesnt think we could do a so called "MAN'S JOB" but the goverment sucks any who but us women should be givin a chance for once..........i think we could do it!!!!!

[A62]

The sad part is that these women want to become SEALs regardless of the damage they cause. First, I have taken a small very unscientific survey and determined that aprox. 85% to 90% of the present operaters will get out as soon s they can. Should this be a concern? I would say hell yes. Secondly, the history of women's entry into most "male dominated or all male careers has been one where they have lowered the standard for women to be able to compete. The justification being that the streangth or skill was not a requirement of the job. Well, one example of that was the woman firefighter that could not lift the ladder and almost got some people killed. The other is that all aspects of BUD/S is time tested and should NOT be changed for women or any other purpose (ie. to make it easier, to increase graduation rates). Besides, as long as there is the prihibition against women in combat, it is a waste of time and money to train women in areas they cannot perform by law.
That's my .02 worth. Now comes the firestorm. BTW, I am ususlly considered to be somewhat, gasp, liberal (no comment AngelLOL) on womens issues.

A62 out

[SeaHawk123]

Stoner68 Your last Msg hasn't been posted yet to my Reply I got in my e-mail so here it goes

FROM ANNE FINCH, COUNTESS OF WINCHELSEA (1661-1720)

The Spelling isn't good but left it that way because it is how it was written.

THE APOLOGY

'Tis true I write and tell me by what Rule
I am alone forbid to play the fool
To follow through the Groves a wand'ring Muse
And fain'd Idea's for my pleasures chuse
Why shou'd it in my Pen be helf a fault
While Mira paints her face, to paint a thought
Whilst Lamia to the manly Bumper flys
And borrow'd Spirits sparkle in her Eyes?
Why shou'd it be in me a thing so vain
To heat with Poetry my colder Brain?

But I write ill and there-fore shou'd forbear.
Does Flavia cease now at her fortieth year
In ev'ry Place to let that face be seen
Which all the town rejected at fifteen?
Each Woman has her weakness; mine indeed
Is still to write tho' hopeless to succeed.
Nor to the Men is this so easy found
Ev'n in most Works with which the Wits abound
(So weak are all since our first breach with Heav'n)
There's less to be Applauded than forgiven.

Note: "Apology," in its older sense, means "pleading off from a charge
or imputation, whether expressed, implied, or only conceived as possible;
defence of a person, or vindication of an institution, etc., from
accusation or aspersion" (OED).

SeaHawk123

[Stoner68]

For some reason my post did not go through ,but please tell me ,are you apologizing or am I?

Stoner

[SeaHawk123]

Stoner68

I am

SeaHawk123 Out

[Stoner68]

SeaHawk....If you didn't see my post ,message 1075 ,please read. Like I said in the E-mail ,I defend your right to disagree kid. Catch you later.

Stoner

[SeaHawk123]

Stoner

I defend your right to disagree kid.


Thanks, The Kid part I'm not sure about that one but, my boys
would really have a laugh about me being called a kid.
When I really think about it I guess I am a kid to you
because I think 20 year olds are kids to me.

If anyone who reads this is 20 or not much older I
don't want to offend you but ,I remember when I was
20 I didn't like being called a kid, in reality I was a Kid.

Seahawk

[Stoner68]

Seahawk,
Isn't it funny that when we are young we don't like to be called kid ,but when we get older most of the time we see it as a compliment.You sound like good people ,glad to talk to you. I look forward to many more conversations with you and some may be heated but please remember I will always respect you. By the way kid was meant as a compliment for you.

Stoner

[SeaHawk123]

Stoner,



Isn't it funny that when we are young we don't like to be called kid


yes, I absolutely Hated being called a Kid LOL

It has been nice talking to you. The kid compliment,
Thanks ! No problem Here, kinda like it.

Take Care
SeaHawk

[TruthSayer]

Question #1-Can you CARRY me when Im shot by the enemy and you've got 2 miles to get to the boats for exfiltration? By the way, you are carrying 45Lbs of gear and your weapon already? I weigh 187 Lbs.without MY gear. Could you carry me even 1/4 mile? Do you personally know any woman who could?? Before the enemy caught up and shot us both I mean(me again and you for the first and last time).
Question #2 You've no doubt seen plenty of video of Afgan fighters or maybe even Al-Qaeda terrorists.Mean and tough lookin huh? Picture youself having to kill one of them hand-to hand with a knife(by the way, hes helpless(low spine shot with silenced SMG by your buddy) but capable of shouting or giving away your position by making noise.Knocking him out or tying him up will NOT work and will put you and your TEAM in jeopardy. No time. Act.
Question #3 Your Infiltration for the mission entails: High Altitude Parachute Drop over north sea oil rig into 45 degree water followed by assembly of boat and equip and link up witth buddies( 30 minutes in freezing water in a FRENZY of need to do activity)then a hearty 2 hour boat romp in heavy gut smashing seas to the rig where you CLIMB up a caving ladder (15 ft.) using arm strength only(youre soaking wet and freezing right?) then you get to climb another 40 feet by sheer talent alone(no ladder). OK? NOW THE MISSION CAN BEGIN. Most people would be dead by then of hypothermia or sheer pain and misery. But..you...THINK you(or any woman not a creation of fiction writers)...could do it??????
Think again!! 95 % of the GUYS already on active duty in our military CANT do it!!!!

[TruthSayer]

SHORT ANSWER: No!!

LONG ANSWER: HEELLLLLL NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Number of ACTIVE DUTY FIT Men who were part ofBUD/s class 234= 82
Number of Men in class 234 who became SEALs= 16

On average number FIT men who qualify out of 100= 22-25

My belief is that the number of ACTIVE DUTY FIT women who COULD EQUAL actual BUD/s and/or SEAL missions? ONE in 2500 but good luck finding em!!!! :>

[Wickwire02]

I believe women should be allowed in the Navy SEALs, except they should be trained a little differently. They should be required to cook ten times faster than the average woman, sweep 1000 square feet per minute, and wash 300lbs of dishes in under five minutes. After their training, they will be qualified for the SKP, SEAL Kitchen Program. This elite group would be responsible for taking care of the real warriors, and, in turn, the Navy SEALs would protect the freedom of the SKP graduates as well as every American. BRING IT ON LADIES, I CAN TAKE IT!

[308Angel]

The US can't afford to limit itself to conventional means in this new war. Regardless of the Male female thing, think instead of the unconventional. All it takes is one, male or female. It should be whoever is the best qualified. God help the world when the best qualified is a female because there will be no turning back if that woman ever makes it using male standards. We've had to be stronger and tougher and there must be instances where women have done what men said women could not do. We are a race that is evolving. We as a species will change and become smarter, larger, stronger. So who is to say women will not eventually be strong enough to do what the government says we cannot do now because of politics and limits.

[Stoner68]

Angel308....How many female quarterbacks have been in the NFL? How many females have hit a grand slam in the Major Leagues. How many females hold the world record in weight lifting? How many females have won an NBA title? How many women have been World Heavyweight Champion? Answer ,none. Why ? PHYSICALLY NOT UP TO STANDARDS AT THOSE HIGHEST LEVELS. Do you understand the difference? Why would you want to go in harm's way and not be able to cut the mustard? You have enough proof. There endeth the lesson. Be a proud female. You have a lot to be proud of !!!!

Stoner

[Wickwire02]

<So who is to say women will not eventually be strong enough to do what the government says we cannot do now because of politics and limits.>

Me. By the time women reach the present day standards set forth by men, we will have advanced light years beyond our current position. I believe all women should stop wasting their time chasing a dream they will never catch. Instead, they should spend their energy listening, listening to the faint voice of hope calling to them from the Peace Corps.

[SeaHawk123]

For all you women who seem to want to argue
this point here, it is time to put your Guns down
and surrender on this. Also it is time for you
to go to Forum Topic: Women in Military..
Women becomeing Navy SEALS Post
Message # 1799. Specwar2badge has
made some very good points on her view
and experience on this topic.

SeaHawk

[Mac679]

ya know, one of these days, someone's gonna scroll down to the very bottom of the forums summary page and realize there's already a whole forum devoted to the topic....

of course it may be a cold day in hell before that happens.....

BTW there's a very interesting reply down there from a woman that some of y'all might wish/need to read....

oh and if anyone wants to mention the pain threshold thing about women being able to put up with giving birth-read the MOH citation for MSG Roy P. Benavidez; keep in mind that the pain of giving birth is usually a temporary thing-the results of having your body violated by 100 or so grains of copper and lead is all to frequently, quite permanent

I think I'll plagerize/borrow from Chief Warrington and copy a post of his to the Women In Combat forum...

[SeaHawk123]

Mac......



keep in mind that the pain of giving birth is usually a temporary thing-the results of having your body violated by 100 or so grains of copper and lead is all to frequently, quite permanent



If you read my earlier post on this one and the other topic
I stand down on this Ok!!!!!!! White Flag waveing in the
wind here!!!

SeaHawk

[308Angel]

Any chance someone can copy and paste that since I keep trying to load that area and it is not accessing properly. Yeah I know it is probably my server again. The trials of living in rural US. Anyways.. thanks.

[Mac679]

wasn't directed specifically at you Seahawk, just figured it'd probably come up again....


Mac

[specwar2badge]

Here's the post from the other forum...

I spent 3 out of my 4 years in the USN with the boys getting them from point A to point B. I got them their per diem, got them where they were going, and they got my back!
Now, 9 years later, I carry my own gun, fight my own fights, and take pride in putting my money where my mouth is on the range. (I know better than to take a team guy to the range.. but man.. I love watching the jarheads walking away with their tail between their legs cuz a GIRL beat em..hehe)

Ladies.. I'm here to tell you I speak from experience... I spent 10 days with the guys in the jungles.. and let me tell you, take your worst nightmare, multiply it times a 100, and then maybe.. just maybe you can begin to fathom the HELL these guys deal with. Frankly, I don't know that it can be imagined. I was one of you at one point in my life, and I nagged my way to get my shot at trying to prove a woman with determination could do anything a man could do. On my fifth day, I waited until dark (because at dark, you literally cannot see your hand right in front of your face, and I didn't want the guys to see my cry), I got on my knees, prayed to God above (and I'm not a really religious person), I prayed to the God above to get me out ALIVE. Now mind you, I had five guys with me that were perfectly capable of taking care of me if I needed it. But that wasn't the point!!! They shouldn't have to take care of me, I should be able to take care of myself.. and worst possible case scenario, be able to take care of them should the worst happen. Now mind you, and I don't care how many pushups you can do, (I could crank out about 80 in a two minute time frame back in those days) you got to be able to not only carry your own weight up and down through the mountains in mud up to your thighs... for MILES and DAYS, carry a 50 lbs ruck sack on your back, an M-16 and ammunition, possibly some comm gear, but now, on top of all that, if a teammate gets injured, you gotta be able to carry him too.. and these guys are 200 lbs.. easy!!! I'm telling you, it isn't going to happen. Physically, no matter how good of shape your in, it's just not going to happen. God gave us softer bodies and abilities that men do not have.. be happy with that, get over this equal lib crap and leave the men to do what it is they are destined to do. Do not...I repeat... Do NOT put one of my guys lives in harms way just trying to prove your point.
You wanna do something worth while fighting for your country.. by all means.. do it. I'll be the first one to back you up on it. However, pick your battles and make sure you can win them. Become a pilot, Intel expert, use the abilities that God gave you and fight the fight. Let me save you and everyone else the grief and inform you now that God did not give you the physical ability to do the job these guys do. Accept it and get over it!!!
The most dangerous person in the world is the one who has no fear and does not know his/her limitations. Not only are they going to put themselves in harms way, but they are going to put their teammates in harms way.. and that there is no excuse for.
For those of you who "just want a chance to try", it works like this, some whiny woman along the way is going to fail and say, "it wasn't fair, they were too hard on me, I want to sue for sexual discrimination" Then the next thing you know, the government will feel it in the pocket book, tell the Navy to lower their standards so that a woman can make it through.. and then God forbid, she will get into the Teams, and then when the real deal comes along.. lives are gonna be at stake because she had something to prove. Not on my watch!!!!!
I pick my battles each night I put on my uniform and go to work. I have the tools to do it and the resources to back it up. I know my limitations and I don't go jeopardizing others trying to be something I'm not. The best part of this? I still always win, the bad guys still goes to jail and the world is a better place for it.
I once promiced I'd write the above in blood if I had to should the issue of women going into the teams come up. I'm not the type to easily admit I'm wrong.. but in those 10 days back then, I was humbled and proven to be wrong. Well, this isn't blood, but the opportunity came up, and I kept my promise! Vale la Pena!!!!!

[SeaHawk123]

OK Mac :) The Flag has slowly come down and
my opinion on this topic has changed.

Flying out
Seahawk

[Tech500]

As of now, no. There are no female SEAL's. But I feel they should let women take the standard SEAL training, if they make it, fine, let em' in. However, I think they should not lower the standards for women, as i think they would, because if the women are trained softer, they will perform softer in combat, wich could be, to quote Mr. Richard Marcinko, "Doom on **** ie" for the girls. In a nutshell, if they can make the same training program as the guys, they're just as good.

"Thus endeth the sermon."

[seal420]

There you go! Sounds like you have got the right idea! The Germans are always ahead of the curve. Good luck over there.

Stoner



Ha Ha Ha. Very funny. :p

I would go over there, but I can't speak German. I don't find the language too attractive.

[seal420]

The other is that all aspects of BUD/S is time tested and should NOT be changed for women or any other purpose (ie. to make it easier, to increase graduation rates).


Who said we women WANTED them to change the requirements in the first place? if I was picked to be a trial female BUD/S student, I wouldn't want them to lower the standards! I'd want them to keep them the way it is. BUD/S is supposedly a challenge, not a luxury vacation spot.....

[seal420]

I believe women should be allowed in the Navy SEALs, except they should be trained a little differently. They should be required to cook ten times faster than the average woman, sweep 1000 square feet per minute, and wash 300lbs of dishes in under five minutes. After their training, they will be qualified for the SKP, SEAL Kitchen Program.


Sweep one thousand square feet per minute?!? hilariously well put. :p

SEAL Kitchen Program?!? Another one hilariously well put! I'd rather eat a hard-boiled egg than qualify as a SKP Mess Cook!

[seal420]

Instead, they should spend their energy listening, listening to the faint voice of hope calling to them from the Peace Corps.


yeah right. the Peace Corps have never really appealed to me. I've never given up hope, because I believe in that higher power that rests among the clouds. when prayers go up, blessings come down.

Take that to the bank.....

[seal420]

However, I think they should not lower the standards for women, as i think they would, because if the women are trained softer, they will perform softer in combat, wich could be, to quote Mr. Richard Marcinko, "Doom on **** ie" for the girls. In a nutshell, if they can make the same training program as the guys, they're just as good.


I agree wholeheartedly with you.

[dmbauer1]

I realize a woman can't do physically what a man can, but this reply was the most intelligent reply I've read. The USA is the only armed forces in the nation that doesn't have women special forces. They can do lots of conniving, yet patriotic things to strengthen our armed forces. Hats off to the supporter of women's special forces.

[BJB]

What, exactly, is your job?

[roula]

The USA is the only armed forces in the nation that doesn't have women special forces. They can do lots of conniving, yet patriotic things to strengthen our armed forces. Hats off to the supporter of women's special forces.


Were on God's Green Earth did you hear that the USA is the only armed forces in the "nation"...I think you might have meant "world"...that does not allow women in the special forces? As stated before even Israel and Russia which in the past had women fight in the front lines during Wars do not have women in the Special Forces. And who said that such studies DON'T take place around the world. Here are three done by countries who regularly join the USA in military operations all over the world:

EXAMPLE Number ONE:
"Combat Effectiveness Gender Study": In 2002 the British military announced that women will not be allowed to serve in the front lines....meaning women are barred from units that have "close with the enemy," contact such as the Special Forces, the Infantry, the Royal Marine commandos, the Royal Air Force Regiment and the Royal Armored Corps....similar to the USA and most other countries laws on this issue. The British military rule came after a two year study on this subject which found that most women performed significantly worse than men in key physical tests which last time I checked is a MAJOR KEY issue since most front line and "close with the enemy contact" require physical strenght.

"The maintenance of cohesion among the team members is seen as a vital component in sustaining combat effectiveness," the study said, "The small size of the basic unit in ground combat, coupled with the unrelenting mental and physical pressure extending over days or weeks, sets them apart from other military roles. Even small failures in a high-intensity, close combat environment can lead to loss of life or the failure of the team to meet its objectives."

Men failed 20 percent of the time to carry 90 pounds of artillery shells over certain distances. The female failure rate was 90 percent. In a mission simulating wartime conditions, male and female soldiers were asked to carry 60 pounds of equipment while marching 12.5 miles, completing the exercise with target practice. Seventeen percent of the men failed, and 50 percent of the women.

Adm. Sir Michael Boyce, chief of the Defense Staff said the armed forces wanted to be a "more inclusive employer" but that the decision was taken for key reasons of operational effectiveness. Capt. Erica Bridge, one of a number of women serving with the Royal Artillery, said: "I think it's the right decision. We don't know from experience how it would work because we've never had to try it in a battle, and a battle is not the place to start that sort of social experiment. If it all went wrong, there would be nothing you could do about it."

A key line that should jump out at people to make them think about things like this seriously instead of "socially" from the reply that Capt. Bridge's gave should be: 'a battle is not the place to start that sort of social experiment. If it all went wrong, there would be nothing you could do about it.'

EXAMPLE Number TWO:
The "Canadian experience" is another study on this issue this time done by Canada of course. They recruited 48 women for a 16-week infantry training course that was identical to the men's. Out of the 48 only three past, the other 45 women recuites failed to complete a course that has less then 30% male failure rate....lets see only three women passed the Canadian Infantry training course which I doubt very much is as demanding as BUDS is since more then 70% of the men taking it actually pass it while BUDS has a male FAILURE rate that is at best 70%....hhhmmm interesting.

EXAMPLE Number THREE:
The "Israeli experience", I love it when people always bring up Isreal as a "prime example" of having women in combat units when in fact they don't know what they are talking about. Yes given Israel's unique vulnerability the Israeli army has in the past during emergency situations put women in the front lines BUT this is not the norm. Infact the Israeli armed forces pointedly keep women out of combat units base on their experience with this in the past. In 1948 the Isreali Army decided to train and put women in the front lines with the combat units, they withdrew them weeks after seeing what a disastrous effect it had on discipline and morale. Some months ago I came across a story written either by a CNN or MSNBC reporter on the Middle East Conflict it had nothing to do with Women in Combat or Special Forces but one part of it talked about an incident that took place at an Israeli check point. On duty were young IDF soldiers both male and female. The reported noted that some of the female soldiers were wearing non regulated "combat boots" with those big clunky high heels that left him wondering how the hell they would be able to run in those boots if some kind of attack took place. Well he didn't have long to wait, some time after that a Palestinian attack took place on the check point. One of the girls with the clunky boots jumped on the lap of one of the male IDF soldiers and between chewing gum while screaming buried her face in the young IDF soldiers neck through the whole incident. After some time the IDF had the whole area secured and the reported learns from others that the guy the young bubble gum chewing IDF female soldier was sitting on was her boyfriend. Needless to say the Commanding Officer was left shaking his head at the whole episode and was not pleased which the reported picked up on. Again the reporter was not doing an article about women in the military but reporting the Middle East Conflict in general and this happened to take place at a check point while he was there I'll do a search and see if I can find the article.

"The military is not the same as civilian employment, nor is it an equal opportunity employer."
[Hewes, 1998]