SEALs vs. Marines

[s_curry23]

When talking to a few of my Marine Corps friends about the SEALs, they told me that SEAL training is pretty much what Marine boot camp is like? Inside i sort of laughed, is this accurate, or Marine Corps pride?

[Tech500]

It depends on what part of SEAL training you're talking about. I don't know much about Marine boot camp, but I can assure you it is probably nothing like it. Seal's and Marines do different, mission wise that is. So SEAL and Marine training must be different. Besides, if Marine boot camp was the same as SEAL taining, SEAL training wouldn't be the most challenging training in the world, would it?

[mark]

MARINE CORP PRIDE - WHICH IS A GREAT THING. HOWEVER - DO NOT BELIEVE FOR A
SECOND THAT ANY TRAINING IS REMOTELY SIMILAR TO SEAL TRAINING.

[dazedcunf]

Not a SEAl, but worked with them. I would say Recon training is close. Just from the mutual respect they had for each other. (No chest puffing) Saw a few barfights between SEALS and grunt Marines. Marines lost bad, and usually started it. Saw a few barfights between grunt Marines and Seabees. Pretty much a tie. I would say USMC pride.

[weasel16]

Im not a SEAL but they wouldnt have called the SEAL training the most intense training for nothing, and on the other hand, for people who dont know who Scott Havleston is, he is a Navy SEAL and is the most fit person. thx

[Doug]

SEAL training is pretty much what Marine boot camp is like


That's an insult...Not even close.......

[s_curry23]

Scott Havleston is, he is a Navy SEAL and is the most fit person.



Was he on that show Combat Missions back in January?

[globalchaos]

Ya he was on combat missions, team Delta. That was the best team, and I'll tell you what athletically he had to be the most fit person he was unbelievable.

[s_curry23]

He really kicked butt. He taunted all of his opponents and could back it up. Cool guy.

[depper]

why do you think there are so many more marines compared to seals. think about it:D

[djjunox]

Who ever your Marine friends are were wrong. I am fixing to go into Marine bootcamp and I know from my friends that have already passed, bootcamp is nothing like BUD\s training. Sure Marine bootcamp is by far the hardest bootcamp of all the branches of military, but in no way reflects the kind of trainning one goes through in BUD\s. However, Marine Force Recon indoc can easly be compared to BUD\S. Plus after the indocs for both, the trainning is pretty much the same, they both go to the most of the same schools to get trained in SF, ex Jump School, Snipper School, (which by the way is taught by Mairines), Dive School etc. just my .02

[Doug]

Marine Force Recon indoc can easly be compared to BUD\S


How in the world can you say that?!? Force Recon indoc is a 48-hour evolution and BUD/S is a 6-month course! Sure, after BUD/S for SEALs and "indoc" for Recon, some of the training is the same. Not all SEALs will go to Marine sniper school though. Although SEALs and Recon Marines are similar, they do have seperate missions and the training is not identical. BUD/S has long been and will continue to be the most difficult U.S. military training school that exists - that's a fact...

[djjunox]

Doug, I am talking about the initial Indoc "Hell Week" and no Indoc for Recon is not 48 hours its 3 days. After that a Marine Recon has to train for a little over a year even before he is considered to be in a "deployable statis". And yes they do attend most of the same schools for ceritification purposes, like I said before and these are just some examples, not all SEALs or Force Recon people will attend the same classes, but, Jump School, Sniper School, Jungle Survial School, Dive School are some of the school all SF will attend. The only way you can attend most of these classes is by being in a Special Forces branch. I am not waying one against the other and I didnt say that one was harder or better than the other, all I said was that the training they go through is basically the same. People think of a SEAL as a total badass, which they are dont get me wrong, but no one ever gives credit to other SF branches. One of the main reason SEALs are considered as the best is because of the media, everyone knows the kind of missions they do because they are covered so much. Other braches missions you will never ever hear about, becuase they dont wont anyone to know what they do. Each brach of SF is the best at what it does, ie. Delta Force -antiterrorism, Green Beret - public relations in an wartime atmpospher, SEALs - hunter\killer teams, Force Recon - data gathering, but all these different SF branches can mix up missions to where they will do the same thing. ie. One of the First teams in Afgan. was Force Recon and they werent gathering data they were assigned as a Hunter\Killer team, there sole purpose was to hunt down the Al-Queda and destroy them. In Desert Storm SEALs played a key role in gathering intel for the Specail Forces command center. This is the reason for all the SF teams to go to the SF schools and get trained. And yes each branch does have there own speacialized training that no one else will recieve. It just kind of burnes me that no one gives any or at least very little credit to other branches such as Force Recon, when they are just as skilled and leathal as any other branch.

[SFOD_Delta]

It just kind of burnes me that no one gives any or at least very little credit to other branches such as Force Recon,


So true. Everyone always talks about how difficult BUD/S is, what about the over 90% dropout rate that Delta's assesment and selection program has?

[Doug]

Guys, Im not saying that Force Recon is no good. I know a bunch of Recon guys that kick ***. My point is simply that the training is NOT the same. Similar, yes, but not the exact same. NOT ALL SEALs will go to Sniper school for example (fact). Yes you are correct that every SF group has many successes. But lets not lose light of our true mission. I don't know if you are or were ever in or not, but publicity is not a goal or an issue we strive for. We don't do what we do to get recognition for it. We do it because others will not. As far as the comments about "everybody is always talking about how hard BUD/S is", etc., etc., you have NO IDEA until you've been there. Yes, I know Recon training and SF school, and Delta assesment are tough - some of the toughest around, but BUD/S is just put together in a way that is uncomparable. You can't begin to understand unless you've been there. And again as for Recons "indoc", it can not be compared with BUD/S. Hell Week alone is longer than "indoc." I know the real training for Recon comes at their platoons and that is comparable to a SEAL's training. Basically it all comes down to this: we all operate effectively and efficiently at our own required tasks. It is not fair to say that one group is "better" than another because each group has its own special trademarks. So I'm not bashing anyone here. Just trying to shed some light on the real issue at hand...

[Stoner68]

Doug.... With all due respect when the Delta Project was established some years ago,it was constructed in a manner somewhat different from BUDS ,but I think just as effective and quite possibly would create more leadership types. But I agree that each group needs to receive the respect they deserve,not the locker room rah rah stuff. When effectively determined the team is bigger that and includes everyone.

Stoner

[mmorlino]

You get your knowledge from books and TV. Don't reply unless you know what the hell your talking about. Wait a sec, do reply because it keeps me entertained. Sorry, drunk again(what a suprise during a gear week). Im out!

MMorlino

[Stoner68]

Sorry to break your bubble MMorlino,I don't read the books ,so don't lead with your chin. Now how did a 21 year old get so smart? You may disagree and puff up like a bird but don't assume what I know and I won't assume why you got the flap on the back of your neck. Kapish Bruno?

Stoner

[sawillia]

You may disagree and puff up like a bird but don't assume what I know and I won't assume why you got the flap on the back of your neck. Kapish Bruno


And me without my Navy Decoder Ring.

Etu Brute

[Mac679]

BUD/S is BUD/S
SFAS/SFQC is SFAS/SFQC
RIP/ROP are RIP/ROP
Selection is Selection
Comparisons are odious...
Each is designed to select personnel based on certain criteria. BUD/S trains SEALs. SFAS selects soldiers who might make it through SFQC. SFQC trains soldiers in one of the 5 SF MOS's. RIP selects soldiers E1-E4 who might have what it takes to make it in a Ranger Battalion. ROP selects NCOs and Officers who might have what it takes to make it as a leader in a Ranger Battalion. Selection identifies soldiers capable of working in both teams as well as operating for extended periods on their own.
It's not how long it is, it's what's put in to how long you have. Hell if people want to go for length. An SF candidate for MOS 18D ( medic ) will spend @1 1/2 to 2 years before graduating SFQC, and will still have to complete language training before being considered fully qualified and being authorized the Special Forces Tab. But the funny thing is if you look at the attrition rates for most courses, they're all damn near the same ( Selection and possibly ROP being exceptions ). 65-80%.

morlino,
about the only thing Stoner is incorrent on is when he refered to Delta as "Delta Project". I believe the latter is a reference to the Greek Letter projects of Vietnam. There were 4 of them, 3 funneled personnel to MACV-SOG. Delta was the other project. Project Delta was an in house 5th SFG(A) in country recon unit. One officer who commanded the unit used it as a place to test tactics and methods he'd learned on exchange with 22SAS. His name was Charlie Beckwith. When forming 1SFOD he chose Delta as the name, after his old unit.

djj,
SF refers to Army Special Forces, these are the men authorized to wear the green beret. They serve in units called "Special Forces Groups", not "Green Beret Groups" ;)

Green Beret - public relations in an wartime atmpospher

um, not quite, UW and FID are *FAR* from public relations ( 6 mos or longer in enemy held territory ain't to great a place for a news camera )-I do believe one of, if not the most decorated unit in the Army ( possibly the military ) is 5th Special Forces Group ( Airborne ). I can't think of any other units with 17 Medals of Honor. The SF soldiers fighting in A-Stan are doing far more than guiding reporters around. Public relations is a Civil Affairs mission sometimes conducted by SF. You mention SEAL missions to gather recon during Desert Storm, there were also *many* missions by SF to provide overwatch and surveillance of the roads leading southeast from Baghdad effectively covering the *** of the invasion. Some of those teams became compromised and performed admirably under fire-as did SEALs and Recon/Force Recon...


It is not fair to say that one group is "better" than another because each group has its own special trademarks.

Exactly.

[IceHeart]

about the only thing Stoner is incorrent on is when he refered to Delta as "Delta Project". I believe the latter is a reference to the Greek Letter projects of Vietnam. There were 4 of them, 3 funneled personnel to MACV-SOG. Delta was the other project. Project Delta was an in house 5th SFG(A) in country recon unit. One officer who commanded the unit used it as a place to test tactics and methods he'd learned on exchange with 22SAS. His name was Charlie Beckwith. When forming 1SFOD he chose Delta as the name, after his old unit.


I read Col. Beckwiths book. "Project DELTA- Detachment B-52" was a recon unit formed during the Vietnam war. They we're made to gather info for lager forces operating in certain areas, but they did their fair share of fighting. It was made from men from the 5th SFG(A) as Mac stated, and he did name Delta Force after it.

Ice Heart

[djjunox]

Mac679 - Mabey I should be more specific when I say SF. By saying SF soldiers, I mean to say any Special Operations branch, and I understand that SF refers to the Army. Why whole point to Doug and anyone else, is that no branch of Special Operations is any better or any more effective than anyone else is. Each of the branches train just as hard as one another, even though there methods of training might be different from each other, they still represent one unit as a whole, and that is the Specail Operations Unit. Be it Delta, SEALs, Force Recon, Green Berets etc. When I said that in Desert Storm the SEALs played a key role in gathering info, I didnt mean to leave out anyone, I was just giving an example to Doug that all of the Special Operations Units can be interlooped as doing anything that anyone else in the Specail Operations Units can. Sure I understand that each of these branches are trained specifically at a speacail trade, but each of the units can perform one anothers job if givin the opertunity. Any Recon dettachment can be sent on a hunter\killer mission, any Delta unit can be sent on a data gathering mission etc.,(sorry if I left anyone out). There is far to much rivalry in a forum or website like this because everyone is always going to think that some Specail Operations Unit is better than the other, when the funny thing is, in the real world (the Special Operations Units) there is no bickering between who is best and who isnt. Sure there is a good amount of competition between the units, even between them selfs in there own units, as to be expected when the best are around, but all the soldiers in these units understand that they are very effective at what each of them do, and they give a tramendous amount respect to one another.

[Romulus]

, Force Recon

Force recon are not SOC are they??
Correct me if I´m wrong..
Romulus out.

[djjunox]

Yes, the actually are. They were just put under JSOC control. Before they were not under anyones rule except the President. The Conmendont of the Core had direct supervision over Force Reon, but now in the USMC's infanent wisdom, they joined the JSOC, so now before they are go out to any mission everything is passed through the JSOC. They are trained like any other specail operation unit, and do go out on many "specail missions".

[Stoner68]

Mac.....I am getting old that is how I meant to type it.I am familiar with both programs though. On this site with all the respect in the world the SEALs think they are the best. Some other sites that are more"closed" would say different or have different opinions. However ,we can be proud of all of our troops. Some of the hype brought to SEALs that they sometimes ***** about is brought on by their own hype. That is one of the differences in some of the groups. I guess Marcinko started it. The good Col. is also begining to talk too much .I guess he has to make some money too. We should be glad we have so many dedicated young men for the tough jobs they do and what they encounter. Need to take my shot of testestorone now.

Stoner

[Romulus]

They were just put under JSOC control.

Oh, ok..
Thank you for the info, I stand corrected.
Romulus out.

[Stoner68]

I think that is a good thing. There are too many who want no accountability and think their way is best.I see that by some on this site.We don't need rogue warriors with their own agendas.

Stoner

[djjunox]

Stoner68 - I agree and disagree that putting Force Recon under JSOC is good. By putting Force Recon or any Spec Ops Unit under their control adds to conformity and organization; which can be good, so there is never any doubt to who’s doing what or when they are doing it. On the other hand when you have an organization, so to speak, governing any group there is always going to be more rules and standards that one has to meet in order in comply with that organization; which sometimes can lead to a slow down in the process of getting things done, simply because of all the politics and bureaucracy involved in an elaborate operation. Before, for the most part, only the commandant of the USMC had control, and governed what Force Recon and other special units within the USMC did. The units were given a task and for the most part as long as the unit got the task done there was no discretion as to how they did it, but now, they have to follow strict guidelines in order to complete a mission. So there are ups and downs when anyone enters new control, but in the long run it is probably better, because they are given more funds to complete training, and are recognized as a special warfare unit by the government. I know that is whole discussion by everyone has kind of went away form the initial thread, but what the hell, that’s what makes these forums fun.

[Chickenhawk]

under JSOC


I believe you mean the Special Operations Command (SOCOM), not the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC). JSOC falls underneath SOCOM in the great pecking order,

[NS]

I watched combat missions and I love the navy seals but scott havelton acted like a kid. I would expect a more adult attitude from a seal, and by the way iv'e seen seals way more fit then him.

[NS]

I dont no what this is about, the delta force would waste the marines and the seals!

[Gokusfusion]

That isn't exactly true,Delta force from what I hear do not have the water skills SEALs do,and also they are more of a Close Quater battle unit than say any type of long range reconaissance. Delta Force personnels are used for hostage rescue and anti-terrorism and speciliazied reconaissance. They usually call in the Rangers for back. SEALs do it all,Long range recon,cq.
SEALs do hostage rescue,come in by Sea Air,and Land obviously. Also Delta Force personnels are hand selected SF soldiers,Rangers,and Navy Dev Group if my understanding is correct since little is know about the Delta's.
I would in no means say the Delta Force would waist SEALs. Delta's are more specialized in Close Quater Battle,SEALs do both. The British SAS are also alot like the Delta's since the Delta Force originally originated and was designed from the SAS teams . Also if I what I read is true,Delta Force failed their very first mission in a attempt to rescue hostages being held in a American embassy in Iran in 1979. Just my opinion

[Gokusfusion]

NS,
If I am not mistaken the Combat Missions shows are made up of ex-members of the SEAL Teams,Marine Force
Recon,Delta's, Green Berets,Rangers,and exsisting Swat Teams etc... Perhapes Scot Havelton had been retired out of the teams for a while . Stoped training and was not the man he once was as far as shape,and attitude goes.

[Mac679]

Delta force from what I hear do not have the water skills SEALs do

just cause they don't spend half their adult lives in the water doesn't mean they haven't been to SFCDQC



and also they are more of a Close Quater battle unit than say any type of long range reconaissance. Delta Force personnels are used for hostage rescue and anti-terrorism and speciliazied reconaissance.

yep, they focus on hostage rescue, it's their primary mission; as for being any type of long range recon unit, there ain't but out 3 LRRP type units ( whose main mission is long range recon ) in the military I can think of and SEALs ain't amongst them. Yep SEALs can do long range recon missions, but it's not their primary focus.


They usually call in the Rangers for back.

you mean for security; Rangers hold down the fort outside and keep things nice and secure for Delta on the inside


SEALs do it all,Long range recon,cq.
SEALs do hostage rescue,come in by Sea Air,and Land obviously.

um, so does any unit in which the personnel are SCUBA qual'd: SF SCUBA teams, Delta SCUBA teams, Marine Force Recon, RRD, etc.


Also Delta Force personnels are hand selected SF soldiers,Rangers,and Navy Dev Group if my understanding is correct since little is know about the Delta's.

it's an Army unit....


Also if I what I read is true,Delta Force failed their very first mission in a attempt to rescue hostages being held in a American embassy in Iran in 1979. Just my opinion

um, Mr. Murphy and the unit screwing something up are two different things...

[Gokusfusion]

Alrighty,I stand corrected..

[NS]

I was just messing when I said the delta force would beat the marine s and the seals. I wanted to see how many people would stick up for the seals. I know for a fact that seal team six is better then the delta force.

[Gokusfusion]

I was just messing when I said the delta force would beat the marine s and the seals. I wanted to see how many people would stick up for the seals. I know for a fact that seal team six is better then the delta force


Well Delta's are more skilled than just Marines.. But you are right SEAL Team 6 just owned all. SEAL Team 6 doesn't exsist anymore correct? It's now devgroup am I right? Someone correct me please.

[Mac679]

I was just messing when I said the delta force would beat the marine s and the seals. I wanted to see how many people would stick up for the seals. I know for a fact that seal team six is better then the delta force.


I believe my hero of bitter wit and sarcasm, Foghorn Leghorn said it best with the phrase, "Brains of a woodpecker on an aluminum telephone pole...."

[IceHeart]

I justread through the chain of posts here.


I believe my hero of bitter wit and sarcasm, Foghorn Leghorn said it best with the phrase, "Brains of a woodpecker on an aluminum telephone pole...."


LOL, Nice one Mac. Some people need to do alittle research before they start typing in here.

Ice Heart

[dbondc007]

Not to be a know-it-all, but isn't Delta training harder?

[Romulus]

I know for a fact that seal team six is better then the delta force.

Oh, What facts are those exactly??

[Romulus]

I believe my hero of bitter wit and sarcasm, Foghorn Leghorn said it best with the phrase, "Brains of a woodpecker on an aluminum telephone pole...."


LOL, Nice one Mac. Some people need to do alittle research before they start typing in here.

Thanks guys, you saved me some typing....*S*
Romulus out.

[dbondc007]

All I know is that to become a member of Delta, you have to already be a green beret, or ranger ( and training for both is almost is nasty, and I've heard from a lot of people that Green Beret training is just as bad as SEALs although I wouldn't know) From there you have to be outstanding as either a Ranger or Green Beret, so you've already gone through the almost as bad training and you made it through with relative ease. See where this is going? Besides, there really is no concrete evidence, seeing that Delta is top-secret.

[stratmn5105571]

Are you people reading what you are typing? This sounds like "my dad can beat up your dad" Of course certain groups are more skilled than others. Otherwise, everyone would go through the same training. But, that isn't the important thing- "who is better." The importance is (1) that they are more than compitant at what they do, and (2) they are ALL the best soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines in the world. Regardless of whether that person is a sonar tech on a sub, a Navy SEAL, a fighter pilot, or a grunt. They all deserve respect because they chose to protect this country at their own free will.

This is an after thought, but I recall someone saying that SEALs specialized in hunter/kill missions as their primary distinction from other special operations forces. Call me crazy, but isn't their bread and butter maritime operations?

[Gokusfusion]

Are you people reading what you are typing? This sounds like "my dad can beat up your dad" Of course certain groups are more skilled than others. Otherwise, everyone would go through the same training. But, that isn't the important thing- "who is better." The importance is (1) that they are more than compitant at what they do, and (2) they are ALL the best soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines in the world. Regardless of whether that person is a sonar tech on a sub, a Navy SEAL, a fighter pilot, or a grunt. They all deserve respect because they chose to protect this country at their own free will.

This is an after thought, but I recall someone saying that SEALs specialized in hunter/kill missions as their primary distinction from other special operations forces. Call me crazy, but isn't their bread and butter maritime operations?


True all respect to all the soldier's. This was mostly over SEAL's,Delta's,Marines. Noone was really judging other type soldiers. Yes SEALs bread and butter is the strongest at maritime operations.

[dbondc007]

I was just jumping in an already out of control debate. Besides, you are right, everyone that serves in the Military is worthy of your undivided respect. They have chosen to live a life that I, admittingly, cower from.

[roula]

"Brains of a woodpecker on an aluminum telephone pole...."


LoL!! That's one of the best quotes I've heard in a long time!!

[wannaBseal]

I had got into an arguement with a guy in the GI Joe isle of a toy store, clearly in the marine corps (Bulldog and a USMC tatoo) about who was better, SEALS or Marines. I was looking at a Navy seal Action figure when he said that the marines were better, "SEALS had taken all of the marines glory!" I said that in the early days of seals (UDT) that they had cleared the beaches for the marines so they could storm them. I had said that WHY SHOULD THE SEALS AND MARINES TALK TRASH ABOUT ONE ANOTHER WHEN THEY FOUGHT AS A TEAM TO ACCOMPLISH VICTORY IN EVERY WAR SINCE WORLD WAR II. the man shrugged and said that he hadnt thought about that.





HEY, WHY SHOULD WE FIGHT ONE ANOTHER WHEN WE HAVE BIN LADEN TO PLAY A GAME OF MANHUNT WITH!!!

[Moose]

Just finished skim reading through this whole topic...and I've noticed a few things that have been said and just sort of disreguarded so I thought I would reiterate. Before I even write this, I know that most everyone on earth at one point in time, hears what they want to, and turns a deaf ear to anyone that tells them something they don't want to hear. Having said that, I'm going to continue on, and not bother going back and forth on this one.

1) All of America's military personal have jobs to perform. Reguardless of the difficulty and nature of these jobs, they all require each other to perfom, so that they may accomplish their overall objective, to keep you and I safe. They all do their jobs well, and we should all be very appriciative, and proud of them.

2) I don't think that anyone that has argued a point about one training program being harder than another training program on this entire post has participated in them both (ie. not one person that says BUD/S is harder than RIP has participated in both BUD/S and RIP). So basically, no one has anything aside from hearsay to base their opinions upon, which is fine to a point, and even if they had participated in both it would be their own personal opinion. Key word being personal. After all, not everyone has to agree with you.

3) Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I really and truly believe that reguardless of what you say on this forum, that you're not going to change their opinion. I wouldn't take kindly to someone that tried to convince me that Rangers are better than SEALs, but once again, I would be arguing off what I've heard, not solid fact. And on top of that, its like comparing apples to oranges...they are totally different.

4) All of America's Special Forces are awesome at what they do, and at the same time, are totally different (already an established fact from earlier posts). Think of this:
* Rangers - Large amount of troops, lots of firepower, can be used on a variety of missions.
* Green Berets - Smaller unit size, same as above however, would not be preferable to use in an environment where there is a large ammount of opposition, no?
* SEALs - Same as above, however, very good in the water.
* Force Recon - Performs Reconnaissance.
* Combat Control - Forward observers for supporting air strikes and any airborne operations.
* PARARESCUE- Rescues downed aviators in hostile environments, and performs civilian high-angle rescues.

Although thats not all that these groups do, its a decent synopsis, no? Why compare these groups? As said before, they are totally different.

But (whish I knew how to underline here), thats just my opinion ;-)

Moose

"Don't ever argue with fools, because people from a distance, can't tell who is who." - Unknown

[Gokusfusion]

Just finished skim reading through this whole topic...and I've noticed a few things that have been said and just sort of disreguarded so I thought I would reiterate. Before I even write this, I know that most everyone on earth at one point in time, hears what they want to, and turns a deaf ear to anyone that tells them something they don't want to hear. Having said that, I'm going to continue on, and not bother going back and forth on this one.

1) All of America's military personal have jobs to perform. Reguardless of the difficulty and nature of these jobs, they all require each other to perfom, so that they may accomplish their overall objective, to keep you and I safe. They all do their jobs well, and we should all be very appriciative, and proud of them.

2) I don't think that anyone that has argued a point about one training program being harder than another training program on this entire post has participated in them both (ie. not one person that says BUD/S is harder than RIP has participated in both BUD/S and RIP). So basically, no one has anything aside from hearsay to base their opinions upon, which is fine to a point, and even if they had participated in both it would be their own personal opinion. Key word being personal. After all, not everyone has to agree with you.

3) Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I really and truly believe that reguardless of what you say on this forum, that you're not going to change their opinion. I wouldn't take kindly to someone that tried to convince me that Rangers are better than SEALs, but once again, I would be arguing off what I've heard, not solid fact. And on top of that, its like comparing apples to oranges...they are totally different.

4) All of America's Special Forces are awesome at what they do, and at the same time, are totally different (already an established fact from earlier posts). Think of this:
* Rangers - Large amount of troops, lots of firepower, can be used on a variety of missions.
* Green Berets - Smaller unit size, same as above however, would not be preferable to use in an environment where there is a large ammount of opposition, no?
* SEALs - Same as above, however, very good in the water.
* Force Recon - Performs Reconnaissance.
* Combat Control - Forward observers for supporting air strikes and any airborne operations.
* PARARESCUE- Rescues downed aviators in hostile environments, and performs civilian high-angle rescues.

Although thats not all that these groups do, its a decent synopsis, no? Why compare these groups? As said before, they are totally different.

But (whish I knew how to underline here), thats just my opinion ;-)

Moose

"Don't ever argue with fools, because people from a distance, can't tell who is who." - Unknown


Well stated and agreed.

[NS]

Where do you guys get these lines, there great!

[speeddemon]

SEALS vs. Marines... That's comedy right there! There is no comparison between SEALS and marines. You're not comparing apples to apples here. SEAL training is, by far, the toughest training in the world. The marine recon doesn't compare. Their selection in length is hours, not months. If someone is prepared physically, they can go through that easy, there isn't much mental stress, its only day and a half, two days. Look at BUD\S, six months of pure, unadulterated hell. It takes a very tough person, both mentally and physically, to finish something like that. They go to some of the same schools like SERE, but so what.

[Mac679]

SEAL training is, by far, the toughest training in the world. The marine recon doesn't compare. Their selection in length is hours, not months. If someone is prepared physically, they can go through that easy, there isn't much mental stress, its only day and a half, two days. Look at BUD\S, six months of pure, unadulterated hell. It takes a very tough person, both mentally and physically, to finish something like that. They go to some of the same schools like SERE, but so what.


please re read the entire thread, especially where myself and several others have thrown the length of training argument out the window.....of the 40th floor.....on to a bed of 6' spikes.....coated in cyanide...

Arguing SEALs vs Marines makes about as much sense as preheating a microwave oven....

[speeddemon]

I don't care if someone's thrown the length of training argument out or not... If there's something I want to say, then i'll say it..

[Jman841]

What about other branches u guys are ONLY talking about American forces what about all the other ones out there. some people would say the british SAS is better than the SEALS (im not sayin that i said that) or what about the german GSG-9 or the French one (forget what it was called)?

[Romulus]

Everybody...........JUST DROP IT!!
PLEASE!
Romulus *sigh* out.

[Gokusfusion]

the French one (forget what it was called)?


I don't really know how to spell this but I believe it's French legenair.... I know that is nowere near spelled correctly,but I am sure that's the French Special Force group you was thinking of..

[IceHeart]

The French one could also be GIGN, the counter terrorist unit.


Everybody...........JUST DROP IT!!
PLEASE!
Romulus *sigh* out.


Sorry, ya won't hear any more from me.

Ice Heart

[Sully]

Arguing SEALs vs Marines makes about as much sense as preheating a microwave oven....


And this is exactly where this thread should have died. I couldn't have said it better if I tried, Mac!

[Maverick]

oh to reply to above statement about the french ... they are called GIGN
Maverick out

[Gokusfusion]

oh to reply to above statement about the french ... they are called GIGN
Maverick out


Isn't there a French Special Operaton group called Legenair or something too though?

[Romulus]

Isn't there a French Special Operaton group called Legenair or something too though?

Are you going for the legion??
It´s composed of people from around the world, not only french guys...
Romulus out.

[Gokusfusion]

Are you going for the legion??
It´s composed of people from around the world, not only french guys...
Romulus out.


I didn't know Legion was for everyone around the world,but no I am going to go infantry if I go military.. Don't ask me why either... lol

[warpig]

Force Recon wasnt put up under socom(12 marines were) Force Recon as a whole still falls under the MEF. The Corps is forming a tier 2 unit to be assigned later this year as info has stated. Force members( experienced) will make up this group as of now.

[warpig]

I dont claim to know training for delta, seals, afsoc, but Force recon (1st force ) ther is a selection and screening process 2 days. prior to this, they attend 13 weeks of boot camp, 10 weeks infantry training. Then if you are one of the lucky 15-20% to be selected its off to RIP ( recon indoc plt) 5-8 weeks. then Basic recon course on the west coast or amphib recon school on the east coast.(8 weeks). then pipeline( airborne, usmc combatant divers course, never been to sf dive course but i know for a fact that no dive school swims farther 10,000 yards.( who cares?) then to coxswain school & navigator. sere. after that they go to individual training phase 6 mth, then unit training phase 6mth, pre-dep phase (soc-qual), deployment 6mth, 6thmth post dep phase, then at it again. Training includes ranger school, halo/haho, sniper (1 per team), h&k wpns course, sf trgt aqus crs, etc....... to compare seals and force is similar to comparing indentical twins (brothers in arms). alot of marine say" why does it take so long to train a seal, it takes half the time to train a marine. B.S. understand navy personnel have limited knowledge when it comes to land nav weapons handling and marksmanship, IA drills, patrolling etc....... every applicant to recon has these traits already. Also you couldnt try out for force until you were an e-4 in an infantry unit with credentials, that has recently changed (which i think is good ) these new infantry men are molded correctly. some of forces missions include vbss, long range recon, hdro survey, snatch ops etc... in extreme hostage rescue has been deleted. though when force gets soc qual they are more than capable of performing this mission. Seals, sf, delta, afsoc are cream of the crop. force recon are marines trained to support marines