Patriotism

[ladyleatherneck6]

Patriotism is a love of and loyalty to one's country. A patriot is someone who loves, supports, and is prepared to serve their country.

I've been on a lot of military sights and the one common denominator I keep seeing in our youth is their reason for joining the military is a video game? What the f#*k is that? Call of duty, SOCOM or whatever, let's get a reality check here!! It's a game. If you go in the military, you can't push a pause button, you can't save and go back. It's real life!! I would suggest you read the statement above, and then ask yourself some very important questions!

Male or female, are you ready to leave your family for months at a time, regardless of whether you have a small baby at home?

Are you prepared to sit in the rain, mud, snow or whatever other element you're exposed to, freezing your tail off, sleep deprived and not knowing when you're going to return to a warm shower, warm meal and a dry area?

Are you prepared to push your body to lengths you didn't even know were humanly possible and hurt so bad you think you're going to die on the spot?

If you hesitate for any length of time in your answers, I'd say go unpause the game and stay in front of the TV, you're looking at the "glory" of being in the military, not the reality!!

After serving my country as a US Marine, I will tell you, if asked to go back today, no hesitation, I'd do it in a heartbeat!! No questions, no promises, just the pride in knowing I'm serving this great county!!!

[oldswabbie]

LadyLeatherneck.. That was a VERY good Post. I agree with every single word. Too many these days Patriotism is brushed aside for "Glory", and as you know .. there isnt any. An old Marine 1st Sgt who served and fought at Chosin and In Vietnam once said to our class after hearing some idiot talk about Glory and all that.. "Death and Glory? Bull**** - there isnt any Glory in Death, its just F'n bad".

We all owe this Country, every single one of us. Not everyone is going to pay on their debt, it will fall to the few to pay the tab... and that tab is often required to be paid in blood... It started at Concord and Lexington..and it continues on...

OOHRAH Marine!

OldSwabbie

[bud/s 184]

Patriotism is a love of and loyalty to one's country. A patriot is someone who loves, supports, and is prepared to serve their country.

I've been on a lot of military sights and the one common denominator I keep seeing in our youth is their reason for joining the military is a video game? What the f#*k is that? Call of duty, SOCOM or whatever, let's get a reality check here!! It's a game. If you go in the military, you can't push a pause button, you can't save and go back. It's real life!! I would suggest you read the statement above, and then ask yourself some very important questions!

Male or female, are you ready to leave your family for months at a time, regardless of whether you have a small baby at home?

Are you prepared to sit in the rain, mud, snow or whatever other element you're exposed to, freezing your tail off, sleep deprived and not knowing when you're going to return to a warm shower, warm meal and a dry area?

Are you prepared to push your body to lengths you didn't even know were humanly possible and hurt so bad you think you're going to die on the spot?

If you hesitate for any length of time in your answers, I'd say go unpause the game and stay in front of the TV, you're looking at the "glory" of being in the military, not the reality!!

After serving my country as a US Marine, I will tell you, if asked to go back today, no hesitation, I'd do it in a heartbeat!! No questions, no promises, just the pride in knowing I'm serving this great county!!!

On the flip side of that....I really didn't know what patriotism was when I joined....and quite frankly didn't get it...until I was in second phase of BUD/S...our proctor would come into the classroom every morning with the American Flag....jump on the table and ****ing start screaming...brother's this is what it is all about....We are Americans....and noboby will ever kick our ***....That is when it clicked.....I am about to become part of a Team...that kick's ****ing *** for the Red White and Blue!!

So my take is this....whatever your reason for joining....I don't judge...we need kid's to join the Military....bottomline!!

[oldswabbie]

On the flip side of that....I really didn't know what patriotism was when I joined....and quite frankly didn't get it...until I was in second phase of BUD/S...our proctor would come into the classroom every morning with the American Flag....jump on the table and ****ing start screaming...brother's this is what it is all about....We are Americans....and noboby will ever kick our ***....That is when it clicked.....I am about to become part of a Team...that kick's ****ing *** for the Red White and Blue!!

So my take is this....whatever your reason for joining....I don't judge...we need kid's to join the Military....bottomline!!

You are right ~ they need to join! The Patriotism will come.. like you ... it will hit them sooner or later.. depends on how thick the cranial matter is .. :D

Couldnt resist.. ha ha That was funny...:)


OldSwabbie

[oldswabbie]

Talking about the FLIP SIDE... :D

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n412/oldswabbie/79432CIkh_w.jpg

[Illmaxic]

So my take is this....whatever your reason for joining....I don't judge...we need kid's to join the Military....bottomline!!

I agree with you and swab on this one. Patriotism will come around to all people who serve. (mostly) I think its hard not to realize it when its there. Personally, I really don't care if they consider themselves "patriots" or not. It doesn't matter on the battlefield, what matters is, will they fight for you and with you? like 184 said, we need young men to join the military, whether it be because patriotism drove them to join or not, so long as they perform their duty I'm cool with anything.

[ladyleatherneck6]

I couldn't agree more guys, I just don't want to see these young guys going in based on a video game and then end up in a very bad situation because it was not a well thought process! Hell I joined because my whole family was in the Marines, my brother was my recruiter (f#*king liar!!)! Just kidding, I love the guy, and he's a huge mentor to me!! I just really want these kids to realize as the old saying was, "Nobody promised you a rose garden!"

[tool2001]

Patriotism is great and all Americans should have it. We have much to be grateful for, but no all share the enthusiasm. I left the Marines in the early 90's, but enlisted in the USN after 9/11. Not really much has changed. However the real issue, is why they join and the time frame? So many of these young Americans join for the college benefits that are so great today, not to mention the enlist bonuses. The problem with that is that there's a war going on and many forget that aspect. I hear so many times, I didn't join to go to Iraq, I joined for the college money. Well guess what, you can't get one without the other. Remember this is the US military not the Boy Scouts of America. You've enlisted, now you have to honor your commitment.

R/

[hardhead101]

Patriotism.....my favorite subject. Not sure how many of you are currently active but it makes me weep to see how few patriots we actually have in the military. First, I am not talking about Special Forces, everyday I have to put up with people who think that being in the military is just a paycheck or away to college. There lack of patriotism is apparent in there everyday disrespect and non-disciplined asses. I work on a marine base and still have to yell at guys because they refuse to salute The Flag when they walk by it.
I know that I can not speak for everyone but the love I have for my country came in school when I learned of what was sacrificed to hand us the freedom we have, and that evil people are always going to be there to try and take it! At that point when you know you would gladly give your life to stop that from ever happening is when you become a patriot, and it should happen a lot earlier than it does these days.

[ladyleatherneck6]

Check this out, this is awesome!

http://www.flashdemo.net/gallery/wake/index.htm

[xfleetguy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0rQzUVQjd8

[oldswabbie]

Patriotism.....my favorite subject. Not sure how many of you are currently active but it makes me weep to see how few patriots we actually have in the military. First, I am not talking about Special Forces, everyday I have to put up with people who think that being in the military is just a paycheck or away to college. There lack of patriotism is apparent in there everyday disrespect and non-disciplined asses. I work on a marine base and still have to yell at guys because they refuse to salute The Flag when they walk by it.
I know that I can not speak for everyone but the love I have for my country came in school when I learned of what was sacrificed to hand us the freedom we have, and that evil people are always going to be there to try and take it! At that point when you know you would gladly give your life to stop that from ever happening is when you become a patriot, and it should happen a lot earlier than it does these days.

I guess I learned what it meant long ago from Colonel John Ruhsam USMC, 1st SGT James Dailey USMC. They were no BS Marines.. both were really stand up Marines and great guys. Years ago when I passed colors I would stop, Salute and then carry on. I would see some Sailors look at me like why are you doing that? Others would do exactly as I had done. You could easily tell who "Respected" the colors. All the little things that go into serving your Country, thats what makes it special. Like bud/s said, it took a proctor coming in and jumping on the table with the flag.. then the light bulb came on.

When it comes to battle - thats different. You want to say you go into battle for love of Country, Mom & Apple Pie.. but thats not the way it is. You go into battle you are in it with your brothers in arms. You are fighting for THEM and WITH them. Sure, lofty things like Patriotism and the Flag and all that are great ... but that doesnt come into it until later. Its kinda wierd. After its all said and done - you say - I fought for my Country.. but in reality you fought for you and your Team mates or brothers in arms...


OldSwabbie

[jhammons33]

Let's look at this issue in a different light. I wholeheartedly agree that NOBODY should join the military without extensive research etc. and taking the time to understand the implications of their decision. (Talking to servicemembers past and present, recruiters, mentors etc.) No one should base their decision on just a video game or any other medium.

HOWEVER, video games are $100 billion+ industry and are played by regularly by people of most ages. Why do you think the US Army spent the time and money developing "America's Army" - the free, online, and very popular video game? Recruiting, period. And do you know where the Army got that idea? From seeing and playing the Tom Clancy series of video games - Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon etc. They saw that the games were SO realistic and that they could provide real "value" when it came to recruitment and even training of soldiers!

A video game 'tempting' someone to join the military is no different than watching a movie and feeling the same temptations. When Top Gun came out in the 80's, I believe Naval Aviation recruiting (and recruiting in general) increased markedly. Regardless of one's opinions of video games, they are the overwhelming medium of choice for younger generations. It only makes sense.

Of course, when it comes to really walking the walk and proving that you will endure the hard times of military life, PATRIOTISM and the gut check must take over! My 2 cents....

[oldswabbie]

These things may initially draw them and lure them.. but when the "thing gets real" there are often problems. I pulled some statistics about NSW DOR rates at various points from Recruitment to Completion of Training. I went and found it.. We've drawn a bunch of conclusions as to WHY some of these strange drops. We've brought it up that maybe they just wake up one day and say "Oh S*** what Have I done!"... to "This ISNT what I thought it would be like".. OR.. "Screw Navy Boot Camp, I'm too good for this I belong in Bud/s, I quit!"... All kinds of reasons...

A whole bunch of new people have come on the forum now.. what do you think about these numbers? Were they serious? Apparently NOT! If they were they would have stuck it out.


The two biggest drops are:

1. Navy Boot Camp 42% DROP ON REQUEST!!!
2. Bud/s 1st Phase including Hell Week (like- Duh!) 66% DROP ON REQUEST


Of those men who contacted a Navy recruiter with the intent to become a SEAL candidate, those who:

* Signed an enlisted contract: 79 percent.
* Graduated recruit training: 58 percent.
* Completed SEAL pre-indoctrination program: 90 percent.
* Completed SEAL indoctrination: 85 percent.
* Completed BUD/S phase 1 (includes "Hell Week"): 33 percent.
* Completed BUD/S phase 2: 87 percent.
* Completed BUD/S phase 3: 96 percent.
* Graduated from Airborne School: 100 percent.
* Completed SEAL Qualification Training: 99 percent.


OldSwabbie

[laney]

Patriotism is on par with joining because you liked a video game. Both don't benifit you much, they just benifit the military, which needs bodies. Good reason to join the military is a career jumpstart, ability to do somethign exciting with your life, and to jump out of perfectly good airplanes.

[sniperp]

When I first joined I was in a tough spot, I was asked not to return to my college because my grades were so bad and had lost a good electronics job because some merchandise went missing in my area and our loss prevention guy hated me, I was after his job before I went electronics, and pointed the finger at me. So I was stuck between military or a paper mill. I opted the military because I figured "hey my dad was 22 years navy and my brother was 8 years army, cant be that bad." So for me right away it was about getting out of my home town and getting a steady paycheck. Then I got to my command and hated being there, I pre-commed a ship and just hated the back stabbing nature of the unit, the micro managing that everyone felt they had to do, and the general atmosphere of the command. So I looked back into EOD, I looked into it in boot but was to chicken to man up for it, as a means of getting out of my command and breaking the monotony of just doing the same thing day in and day out on the ship. But now reading more and more about what really EOD does and the pride they feel when the take out an IED and think I just saved the lives of fellow servicemen and innocent civilians just caught up in the mess. It makes me realize its no longer about what I want to do and a means of me getting out of a bad spot. It about helping out and saving the lives of my fellow solders and sailors. That has been my "IT" moment and I’m sure there will be more to follow. I'm really finally seeing what my dad has been telling me all these years about pride in Old Glory and the country... and damn does it feel good!!

[hardhead101]

Patriotism is on par with joining because you liked a video game. Both don't benifit you much, they just benifit the military, which needs bodies. Good reason to join the military is a career jumpstart, ability to do somethign exciting with your life, and to jump out of perfectly good airplanes.

"A career jumpstart".....wow...The only thing I like about you guys is the smile I get from watching you cower in a corner when the **** hits the fan, crying about how this does not fit in with your career plains. It's politicains like you who make *******s like me scared to yell at people because i might offend them, and heaven frobid i would hurt your sensitive feelings!


P.S. I apologize to everyone else for this outburst...Think I might change my name to angryman101

[laney]

"A career jumpstart".....wow...The only thing I like about you guys is the smile I get from watching you cower in a corner when the **** hits the fan, crying about how this does not fit in with your career plains. It's politicains like you who make *******s like me scared to yell at people because i might offend them, and heaven frobid i would hurt your sensitive feelings!


P.S. I apologize to everyone else for this outburst...Think I might change my name to angryman101

Well this post made very little sense and had nothing to do with what I posted. Why did you/or do you join a certain branch in the service? Because it is the best one for you and your future? Of course, how on earth does that make me cower in a corner? Trust me when I say most people don't join up for patriotism, they do it because they feel it is in their best interest/it will be beneficial to their lives. Just because I think Patriotism is not a good reason to join up doesn't mean I'm not patriotic (because I love my country).

This is America, the individual comes first. There is nothing more patriotic than that, it is the American ideology and should be cherished.

For instance when I enlist or go through OCS to get my stab at BUD/S I'm doing it for the most patriotic of reasons, I'm doing it for myself. I want to jump out of airplanes one day and then do a training mission in Kodiak, Alaska the next. I thank God every day that I live in a country that give me the opportunity to do this. Being patriotic is doing the best and excelling at everything you do, in which this great nation gives you the ability to do.

Hardhead101, I don't know where you got the idea that I'm a politician, but I'm not. I'm sorry to disappoint you but I believe you just made yourself look like a fool. Absolutely nothing I posted in my previous post is about Political Correctness it pisses me off just as much as it does you. I think you have a lot of mis directed anger and you just let it out at the wrong opportunity.

No hard feelings bud.

[scskowron]

It clicked for me about two years ago. Something about starting college living right in the middle of New York City....realizing how fortunate I am...to be getting an education at a university that shares my religious values...to be able to listen to the music I want...to be able to take a walk without fear of the government....to be able to criticize the policies I don't like....to see all the buildings in NYC and know that they were built because people had the freedom to choose and because they had the money they made from capitalism....to be able to choose the career I want...the clothes I want to wear....to not worry about being imprisoned...to not worry about being invaded....to not worry about being forced anywhere against my will....to know I will have a fair trial....to know that when I am ready I can own a gun....to know that I can't be denied freedom because of who I am...to know that I can choose who I want to lead...and that I can lead.............................................. to think that all of that is because of my country, the men who made it, and the millions who died so that I could enjoy all those things.....and yet people ask me why I like this America so much.....you think if I lived in Red China during the Cold War where I'd have my job AND my clothes picked out for me that I'd be so eager to sign up to defend it? No.

[laney]

It clicked for me about two years ago. Something about starting college living right in the middle of New York City....realizing how fortunate I am...to be getting an education at a university that shares my religious values...to be able to listen to the music I want...to be able to take a walk without fear of the government....to be able to criticize the policies I don't like....to see all the buildings in NYC and know that they were built because people had the freedom to choose and because they had the money they made from capitalism....to be able to choose the career I want...the clothes I want to wear....to not worry about being imprisoned...to not worry about being invaded....to not worry about being forced anywhere against my will....to know I will have a fair trial....to know that when I am ready I can own a gun....to know that I can't be denied freedom because of who I am...to know that I can choose who I want to lead...and that I can lead.............................................. to think that all of that is because of my country, the men who made it, and the millions who died so that I could enjoy all those things.....and yet people ask me why I like this America so much.....you think if I lived in Red China during the Cold War where I'd have my job AND my clothes picked out for me that I'd be so eager to sign up to defend it? No.

**** yeah man.

[hardhead101]

laney... you honestly think that the primary reason for joining the military is something you do to benifit yourself..that is what makes you a politician!

[laney]

laney... you honestly think that the primary reason for joining the military is something you do to benefit yourself..that is what makes you a politician!

You're logic is so skewed is irrational I don't know what to say, I'm sharing an opinion of what patriotism is to me and you insult me. Nice move.

[hardhead101]

well laney... i would like to have an approriate debate, but to much gets lost in this simple text, and true meaning can't seem to beak through..and in order to keep this a DFZ let's leave it at we agree to disagree and go NAVY!

[laney]

well laney... i would like to have an approriate debate, but to much gets lost in this simple text, and true meaning can't seem to beak through..and in order to keep this a DFZ let's leave it at we agree to disagree and go NAVY!

This is something I can agree with, Hooyah.

[huyah_dan18]

A whole bunch of new people have come on the forum now.. what do you think about these numbers? Were they serious? Apparently NOT! If they were they would have stuck it out.


The two biggest drops are:

1. Navy Boot Camp 42% DROP ON REQUEST!!!
2. Bud/s 1st Phase including Hell Week (like- Duh!) 66% DROP ON REQUEST


I have been thinking about the figures that Swabbie wrote. The 2 biggest drops are Navy Boot Camp and BUD/S-1st phase.

I do not really have a problem with the Navy Boot Camp drop rate. I think it is good to cast a wide net for applicants. They are probably taking people who are iffy at best. The Navy might be just what the person needs to pull themselves together. An individual can learn self-respect, discipline, teamwork and a marketable skill. Some people may not have strong family connections but the military can provide surrogate family.

With regard to the BUD/S drop rate. We can look at factors such as PT scores for *part* of the answer. But there is an unknown "SEAL factor" for lack of a better term. The only way to test for that is BUD/S.

I looked at the figures also to determine the rate of # of SEALS to # of people who started the process with the recruiter. Roughly, it is about 1 in 1,200. That is what I would expect because the SEALS are an elite population.

Dan18

[ladyleatherneck6]

I looked at the figures also to determine the rate of # of SEALS to # of people who started the process with the recruiter. Roughly, it is about 1 in 1,200. That is what I would expect because the SEALS are an elite population.

Dan18

That is exactly what I meant by my statement about glory! Some people look at specialties in the military and that is what they focus on. They halfheartedly listen to everyone who is telling them they have to do this to get to this etc. Then when they are in their training it's like a lightbulb goes on and they say, "What the hell did I get myself into?" I can only stress, to anyone joining any branch, make sure if you don't get to what you wanted, remember you still have a contract. If you're not joining to serve in any capacity, you might find yourself asking that question! I come from a military family, so I knew what I was getting myself into. My dad told me when he signed for me to join, "You're going into a man's world, you either adapt, or you're gonna have trouble!" Growing up with four older brother's thankfully I adapted well and had a great career! I think most will join at first because one parent or the other served in that branch, but I think the attrition shows the number who join thinking that's what they want and it doesn't unfold how they want.

[huyah_dan18]

The Flag symbolizes American tradition, history and dreams of our nation. We feel a lump in the throat. A surge of pride. A strong sense of attachment and ownership. That is our Flag..

But for me a stronger response has always been the document that starts “We the People . . .” Freedom of the Press, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech, Right to Trial by Jury, No Unreasonable Searches. This IS what we as Americans are.

Dan18

[Aram]

Reading through this thread reminded me somewhat of what is taught today. Someone who is fiercely patriotic many times is labled 'nationalist' or fundamentalist. I hate to point fingers but if a blame needs to be given, or at the least shared, the media is also responsible. There is no honor in duty according their thinking.