Russia Georgia Conflict

[WannabeA_Tadpole]

What do you guys make of the recent conflict happening between Georgia and Russia? I am especially curious as to the future of this conflict, because if I am not mistaken, the little country of Georgia is viewed as an ally to the United States. Georgia is also trying to further establish alliance with the US and the U.N. and Russia never approved of this. I find it funny that as soon as Georgia makes big steps toward establishing with the U.N., Russia says Georgia attacked Russian peace keepers and they must attack. Russia has never proven to trust worthy, this shall be interesting.

[jumpingbum]

Well, take a look at the Support/Prayer Group if you want my take on it. I'm not supposed to talk about the Bible anywhere else...

[smoothe14]

yea, Georgia is an ally of the United States, i believe the news said they were pulling 1000 troops from Iraq/Afghanistan and sending them back, which was thought of as preperation for war against Russia. I think all this heat everywhere needs to cool down.


-Eric

[oldswabbie]

Well, take a look at the Support/Prayer Group if you want my take on it. I'm not supposed to talk about the Bible anywhere else...


no, thats not in effect...as long as things dont get crazy :)

OldSwabbie

[jumpingbum]

Gog vs Magog and Israel will be right in the middle getting bombed. Rapture in September.

[WannabeA_Tadpole]

It is a coincidence that on the opening day of the Olympics that Russia decides to attacks Georgia. I personally think this will blow over and end in one of two ways.
1) Russia grows a brain and withdraws from Georgia. (this could possibly happen, a lot of countries are *****in at Russia right now.)
2) Russia shows its true colors, remains in war, Georgia calls for U.S. support. U.S. drops the righteous hammer, kicks some bastard Russian asses and ends conflict. OH YEAH

[wcor]

It is a coincidence that on the opening day of the Olympics that Russia decides to attacks Georgia. I personally think this will blow over and end in one of two ways.
1) Russia grows a brain and withdraws from Georgia. (this could possibly happen, a lot of countries are *****in at Russia right now.)
2) Russia shows its true colors, remains in war, Georgia calls for U.S. support. U.S. drops the righteous hammer, kicks some bastard Russian asses and ends conflict. OH YEAH

Sounds just about right Wannabe. If the U.S does get into a "hot" war with Russia with that be the spark need to start a Global Conflict, aka World War Three? or will it stay a regional conflict?. Just throwing that one out there.

[jumpingbum]

This started more than 2 days ago. Sorry, it did NOT start today, guys. Check out the BBC website. It's just that US News stations are so provincial they don't care about tiny nations they haven't heard of.

[Aram]

I just talked to a guy that went over there last month as apart of a training detail, I haven't seen him since this all went down.

My brother woke me up this morning just to tell me the momentous news. Needless to say I really didn't care until around 1 pm. :)

[laney]

It is a coincidence that on the opening day of the Olympics that Russia decides to attacks Georgia. I personally think this will blow over and end in one of two ways.
1) Russia grows a brain and withdraws from Georgia. (this could possibly happen, a lot of countries are *****in at Russia right now.)
2) Russia shows its true colors, remains in war, Georgia calls for U.S. support. U.S. drops the righteous hammer, kicks some bastard Russian asses and ends conflict. OH YEAH

You aren't very bright are you?

[TAMU_2008]

It's just that US News stations are so provincial they don't care about tiny nations they haven't heard of.

that AND Barack Obama had nothing to do with the story...so why report it?

speaking of the opening ceremony of the olympics...did anyone else see President Bush enter and take his seat...and then about 10 min later someone came up and asked the man sitting next to Laura and George to move and Putin came in and sat down next to them...wonder what they were talking about!

If the United States gets involved militarily we will enter on the side of Georgia..and it will not be pretty..

[reminence]

It is a coincidence that on the opening day of the Olympics that Russia decides to attacks Georgia. I personally think this will blow over and end in one of two ways.
1) Russia grows a brain and withdraws from Georgia. (this could possibly happen, a lot of countries are *****in at Russia right now.)
2) Russia shows its true colors, remains in war, Georgia calls for U.S. support. U.S. drops the righteous hammer, kicks some bastard Russian asses and ends conflict. OH YEAH

Russia's Forces are "Highly Trained" I'm not going to take sides, but I'll be lying if I said America's forces are more trained then Russia's. Search up on google "Spetnaz". Those are bad mofo's.

[reminence]

If the United States gets involved militarily we will enter on the side of Georgia..and it will not be pretty..

If it gets any deeper I'm going Army Rangers!

[jumpingbum]

that AND Barack Obama had nothing to do with the story...so why report it?

huh?

speaking of the opening ceremony of the olympics...did anyone else see President Bush enter and take his seat...and then about 10 min later someone came up and asked the man sitting next to Laura and George to move and Putin came in and sat down next to them...wonder what they were talking about!

If you listened to the commentary during the opening ceremonies, you'd know, duuuude. :)

If the United States gets involved militarily we will enter on the side of Georgia..and it will not be pretty..

no argument here.

[laney]

If you think the United States will ge tinvolved militarily you are gravely wrong.

[TAMU_2008]

[QUOTE=jumpingbum;202726]huh?

It was a joke..about how the main stream media...especially NBC who covered the opening ceremony last night LOVES Barack Obama..

If you listened to the commentary during the opening ceremonies, you'd know, duuuude. :)

I watched the entire thing last night..and I only saw them show Putin/Bush Once..and they said NOTHING about it.

[reminence]

If you think the United States will ge tinvolved militarily you are gravely wrong.

A guy can "dream".

[WannabeA_Tadpole]

You aren't very bright are you?

Damn laney, why insult my intelligence? I was messing around. But on the other hand, if you believe that the US will not get involved if this continues for a long period of time, you my little friend, you "aren't very bright". Georgia is an ally to the United States, and it has already been mentioned, the only reason we have not stepped up at all, is because Georgia has not asked for help and chances are, they won't. That is as long as Russia backs down. We won't let Russia move in any more than they already have. Not only for our allies sake, but for oil pipelines sake. If they ask for help, not only will they pressure us, but so will NATO. You are a total wank if you believe we will not send anything at all, if Georgia asks for help. Have a good one. Give me three reasons why I am wrong, and I shall rip your reasons to pieces.

[reminence]

Damn laney, why insult my intelligence? I was messing around. But on the other hand, if you believe that the US will not get involved if this continues for a long period of time, you my little friend, you "aren't very bright". Georgia is an ally to the United States, and it has already been mentioned, the only reason we have not stepped up at all, is because Georgia has not asked for help and chances are, they won't. That is as long as Russia backs down. We won't let Russia move in any more than they already have. Not only for our allies sake, but for oil pipelines sake. If they ask for help, not only will they pressure us, but so will NATO. You are a total wank if you believe we will not send anything at all, if Georgia asks for help. Have a good one. Give me three reasons why I am wrong, and I shall rip your reasons to pieces.

One is because another World War. If one of us are getting are *** kicked. We would have our allies back us up, or Russia's will get there allies?
Think about it. A oilrig or another world war and another ****ing collapse in our economy bigger then the one we have now? You know what the death toll will be? It will be the greatest dam death toll you can imagine, but I'll be ready with my gun loaded and ears clean. Thats only the tip of the IceBerg.

[jumpingbum]

huh?.

It was a joke..about how the main stream media...especially NBC who covered the opening ceremony last night LOVES Barack Obama..

Ah. Got it. Thanks. I didn't watch the whole thing, just bits and pieces. :)

If you listened to the commentary during the opening ceremonies, you'd know, duuuude. :)

I watched the entire thing last night..and I only saw them show Putin/Bush Once..and they said NOTHING about it.

Apologies, Tamu. I thought they said that Putin and Bush had spoken about Georgia earlier in the day. I am really sorry, I meant no disrespect.

[jumpingbum]

If you think the United States will get involved militarily you are gravely wrong.

Oh Laney, Laney, Laney. You obviously didn't read my PM.

The Bush administration has declared a "war on terror", remember? We have troops in that area. If we don't get involved? I'll eat my hat. Especially since Bush seems to think it's up to him to fulfill Bible prophecy. Heavy sigh.

[TAMU_2008]

Ah. Got it. Thanks. I didn't watch the whole thing, just bits and pieces. :)





Apologies, Tamu. I thought they said that Putin and Bush had spoken about Georgia earlier in the day. I am really sorry, I meant no disrespect.

Ohh none taken what-so-ever...I just wanted to make sure I had my Facts strait..I am ALWAYS open to discussion!

[jumpingbum]

Ohh none taken what-so-ever...I just wanted to make sure I had my Facts strait..I am ALWAYS open to discussion!

Well, facts are important, true, but so is respect. :) This site is supposed to be a no drama zone according to the rules of engagement. It is one of the things I prize most highly when I'm here. So, I wanted to be sure that I had been respectful. :)

For a person my age? The fact that the leader of Russia and the leader of our country are sitting NEXT to each other at an Olympic Opening Ceremony? Oh wow. Can you say dream? Unfortunately, at this time in history, it could result in a nightmare. Hence, my ears perked up when I saw that on TV and then read it here. Sigh. I sure HOPE it's good news...

[TAMU_2008]

Totally in agreement there..it was not long ago at all when we would have never seen the President of The United States and the Prime Minister of Russia (Soviet Union ;) ) sitting next to eachother. It is a great thing, but since they moved about a row of people and Putin came in and sat down, I highly doubt they were talking about the amazing show the Chinese were putting on lol. It did look for the moment they showed him (putin) talking to Bush, he was leaned almost over laura and sort of pointing at the President..so the body language led me to believe that they were indeed talking about Georgia.

And I just read today that Georgia...not Russia, is in the wrong over this issue. That they had been keeping Russian citizens living in Ostestia (spelling) under their rule by force.

We will just have to wait and see what happens next!

[oldswabbie]

I do not trust Putin any further than I can throw that slimly little B....... I know quite a bit about "Puty Put" as our President calls him. Not a good man, not an honest man. I dont know what to make of the Georgia situation, except that we may aggressively bring it before the UN if Russia doesn't stop. I seriously doubt we will bring any military assets to bear on this situation. Even though we have some strategic interests in Georgia ~ I cannot see us getting into a war with them while fighting on two other fronts. Russia is NOT a small Army/Navy... they would be a serious foe.

OldSwabbie

[TAMU_2008]

I agree about Putin...hard to trust a guy who is former KGB :D

[da_runner]

It's not a trust issue. it is more a balance and rebalance issue.

[laney]

Damn laney, why insult my intelligence? I was messing around. But on the other hand, if you believe that the US will not get involved if this continues for a long period of time, you my little friend, you "aren't very bright". Georgia is an ally to the United States, and it has already been mentioned, the only reason we have not stepped up at all, is because Georgia has not asked for help and chances are, they won't.


It is true that Georgia is an ally of the United States. It is not true that if they asked for American military support they would get it. Russia is playing this smart and they are not pushing into sovereign Georgian land, just South Ossetia which has has Russian "peace keepers' in it since April.

There are many reasons why we have not stepped in at all and the primary one is we are not stupid. American troop involvement would mean a full scale war with one of the worlds largest armed forces other than our own. The Geo-political, economic, and humanitarian consequences would be catastrophic and for what? A small breakaway province that has a population of roughly 70,000.

This was Gerogia simply testing the waters, to see how the Russian would react to the repossessing of ex-Georgian territory. If the Russians did not come to South Ossetia's aid Georgia would be in the clear to invade Abkhazia which unlike South Ossetia is wealthy and populated - of great interest to Georgia.


That is as long as Russia backs down. We won't let Russia move in any more than they already have. Not only for our allies sake, but for oil pipelines sake. If they ask for help, not only will they pressure us, but so will NATO.

They are asking NATO and the United States for help - they want us to pressure the Russians for a ceasefire and they know there is a line we cannot cross and that is to ask for American military support. They will not get it and they know it, Russia has not invaded sovereign Georgian territory and they won't.


You are a total wank if you believe we will not send anything at all, if Georgia asks for help. Have a good one. Give me three reasons why I am wrong, and I shall rip your reasons to pieces.


American is condemning the Russian act as an act of aggression, obviously because we are allies. But what would you call a full scale bombardment by the Georgian military on the civilian center of the provincial capital? That is not something the United States wants to overtly support.

The United States is also fighting a two front war right now with a vast majority of its forces. If you think the American military can fight a third front in Georgia against one of the worlds largest militaries you are wrong.

Gerogia invaded South Ossetia for a number of reasons but primarily for its bid to gain mambership of NATO. In order to be even considered they must be in control of all their territory and right now they are not in control of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, it was a bid to regain control they never had as Ossetian's and Abkhazian's appear to prefer Russian rule over Georgian.

This is a regional mess that has been almost two decades int he making, the United States entering it would simply complicate things and escalate them extremely fast into something it should have never been. All the US can do is condemn Russian action "which they are" and site back and pressure for a cease fire.

Remember what happened the last time a tiny nation called for its allies to wage war? (World War 1? Serbia-Russa pact anyone?).

If you are two narrow sited to see the consequences of war with Russia there is not point in this conversation.

[Courtenay]

For those of you who find world strategies interesting, you may enjoy this website. http://www.oxan.com this is Oxford Analytica. Today's briefing on the Russian Georgia conflict states the following:

Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili announced today that he had signed a ceasefire with Russia, but Russian forces continued bombing military targets throughout Georgia. The attacks on Georgia will have serious repercussions for both Russian and Georgian domestic politics, as well as the regional balance of power. Russia's show of force is designed to demonstrate its military and political wherewithal to other former Soviet states, while underscoring Moscow's ability to act with impunity in the face of Western diplomatic protestations. Western governments will be forced to choose whether to confront or appease a politically recalcitrant, and militarily victorious, Russia.

[jumpingbum]

It's not a trust issue. it is more a balance and rebalance issue.

Do you mean the need for the old USSR to stay strong and the US to stay strong? Am I reading that right?

[jumpingbum]

I agree about Putin...hard to trust a guy who is former KGB :D

Does one ever stop being KGB?

[coronadodreamin]

I’ll be forthright; I’m becoming very neurotic about the United States getting involved in another war. I’m not losing sleep over it, but the headlines are giving me more to consider than I’d like.

[jumpingbum]

I’ll be forthright; I’m becoming very neurotic about the United States getting involved in another war. I’m not losing sleep over it, but the headlines are giving me more to consider than I’d like.

Okay, I tried to find your page to find out where you stood on God. I didn't want to be disrespectful. I believe that in the last days there will be wars and rumors of wars. It is said when that happens we are to look up and be hopeful because our Lord is coming soon.

That said, no I don't want another war anywhere. Enough young people have died. I also am rather suspicious at the timing of the start and 'finish' of this one. It seems a little too convenient. I don't trust some of these presidents further (farther?) than I can throw them.

Why did I bring up God? Because I don't believe in coincidence anymore. I've seen too many perfectly timed events. And, no I didn't bring it up to start a debate about God, so please don't flame me. I brought it up because that is what I believe.

CD (Coronado Dreamin') you are a man of good sense and good opinion. I am glad that you aren't losing sleep! :) What is your opinion of the number of armed conflicts around the world. I don't know myself, so I'm asking: how many are there, i.e. how many separate conflicts are there right now? When did they start? If I'm right, we have more now than we've had at any other period of human history. THAT is what I'm interested in.

[oldswabbie]

Does one ever stop being KGB?

I dont know ~ they are pretty sneaky guys.. flat out underhanded.

OldSwabbie

[WannabeA_Tadpole]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402982,00.html

Read the link above. I told a certain someone we would get involved in this conflict somehow. That certain someone told me, “All the US can do is condemn Russian action "which they are" and sit back and pressure for a cease fire.” Hmm that is interesting because thus far Russia has not fully followed the cease fire agreement according to civilians and reporters in the area. If our military or "humanitarian" units come under any form of fire from the Russia side of this **** storm, I think we all know what will happen. We have entered Georgia, and the ‘humanitarian” effort is there to not only give aid, but force Russia to cease fire. I knew we would enter somehow.

"Right now, the key is to remind Russia that it has an obligation to stop its military activities, remind Russia that it is not to further engage in activities that threaten the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Georgia," she said at an afternoon briefing to reporters.

That says it all right there. A quote like that, and we the United States Military landing on the ground now, proves we are there to give aid, and force a cease fire. Tell me how this all tastes Laney, swish it around for a while.

[laney]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402982,00.html

Read the link above. I told a certain someone we would get involved in this conflict somehow. That certain someone told me, “All the US can do is condemn Russian action "which they are" and sit back and pressure for a cease fire.” Hmm that is interesting because thus far Russia has not fully followed the cease fire agreement according to civilians and reporters in the area. If our military or "humanitarian" units come under any form of fire from the Russia side of this **** storm, I think we all know what will happen. We have entered Georgia, and the ‘humanitarian” effort is there to not only give aid, but force Russia to cease fire. I knew we would enter somehow.

"Right now, the key is to remind Russia that it has an obligation to stop its military activities, remind Russia that it is not to further engage in activities that threaten the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Georgia," she said at an afternoon briefing to reporters.

That says it all right there. A quote like that, and we the United States Military landing on the ground now, proves we are there to give aid, and force a cease fire. Tell me how this all tastes Laney, swish it around for a while.

Last time I checked humanitarian aid did not equal Military action. What is happening right now, is verbatim what I said, they're pressuring a ceasefire. This military aid is USAF Globemasters filled with a million dollars worth of aid a piece. It isn't Chinooks full of combat ready marines.

We sent a carrier strike force (military aid) to Thailand after the tsunamis in 2004. Does that mean we were trying to pick a fight with someone?

This is going to be a long and bitter conflict, just because a "ceasefire" is in talks doesn't mean its over. This is way more complicated and deep than you think it is tadpole. You may want a war with Russia but Americans don't and nor do Russians. You are honestly naive enough to think Russia would attack U.S. armed forces? You sound like a war monger man.

I don't get you, do you want war with Russia? Russia isn't Iraq, they have some of the best air superiority fighters in the world, a tight nit air defense grid. More tanks then the western world, and 600,000 combat troops ready to roll. Both sides would take heavy casualties and the people who would end up losing are the families of the young men killed in a senseless political **** waving contest.

The only way you will be able to prove me wrong is if the United States and Russia get into a military engagement. There is no way it's going to happen.

[WannabeA_Tadpole]

Last time I checked humanitarian aid did not equal Military action. What is happening right now, is verbatim what I said, they're pressuring a ceasefire. This military aid is USAF Globemasters filled with a million dollars worth of aid a piece. It isn't Chinooks full of combat ready marines.

We sent a carrier strike force (military aid) to Thailand after the tsunamis in 2004. Does that mean we were trying to pick a fight with someone?

This is going to be a long and bitter conflict, just because a "ceasefire" is in talks doesn't mean its over. This is way more complicated and deep than you think it is tadpole. You may want a war with Russia but Americans don't and nor do Russians. You are honestly naive enough to think Russia would attack U.S. armed forces? You sound like a war monger man.

I don't get you, do you want war with Russia? Russia isn't Iraq, they have some of the best air superiority fighters in the world, a tight nit air defense grid. More tanks then the western world, and 600,000 combat troops ready to roll. Both sides would take heavy casualties and the people who would end up losing are the families of the young men killed in a senseless political **** waving contest.

The only way you will be able to prove me wrong is if the United States and Russia get into a military engagement. There is no way it's going to happen.


As I said before, "You are a total wank if you believe we will not send anything at all, if Georgia asks for help." And you said "All the US can do is condemn Russian action "which they are" and sit back and pressure for a cease fire." Key words "AT ALL" and you said I was wrong. Now lets us get to the meat here little one. Because whether you agree or not, this as Bush and Rice has already mentioned, should be consider by Russia, as the United States first military action, an action made to not pressure for a cease fire, but force one. Key word, FORCE.

"This is going to be a long and bitter conflict, just because a "ceasefire" is in talks doesn't mean its over. This is way more complicated and deep than you think it is tadpole." Uhhh, right, was I not the one that said it was not over? That quote you made basically goes along with the fact that war may be in the horizon, watch your word little friend. As I said the humanitarian aid was basically quoted from Bush and Rice, as being a symbol that Russia must back down, therefore we want a cease-fire. There are major differences to giving aid to a country ripped apart by Mother Nature, and giving aid to an ally being attacked by a country we have never trusted before, and they feel quite the same toward us. The cease-fire is the key objective, and I hope Russia will obey, however what I am getting at is this. How long do we wait for them to obey Laney? I say this will go on for about a month or two, and if at that point Russia does not back down, I can almost guarantee that just as we gave aid, while the conflict was still going on, while most of the world including you, thought we would not, we will attack Russian troops in Georgia.

Russia Magically starts sending troops to sabotage airports, and magically starts setting up strategic formations around a major city in Georgia, saying the rest of the word could forget Georgia's set borders. Hmm is this because they want to partake in a cease-fire? You tell me Laney, you, the one that said we would not take action at all; you tell me how peaceful this is looking so far my peace hugging liberal sounding friend. They are provoking us.

Now as I was right once, I shall explain to you the actual cause behind giving aid to Georgia. We have always kept an eye on Russia, and always have after the cold war ended. Russia lost certain territories overtime that they consider to be rebels. Georgia became our ally, we trained Georgia, and they are a symbol. If we let Russia continue this conflict, we are telling Russia we are afraid, and they are free to take back any territory they wish. If we let them continue, this conflict will be far more complicated than it is as you mention, which you obviously do not understand what you said anyway. We will give aid to Georgia, but if this conflict continues my little laney, my first two options I gave, that you thought were not bright, are going to be considered, I PROMISE you this.

As long as Bush is in office, you should not take away the fact that they are considering actual military action against Russia, whether you think it is a good idea or not. Like you, many people thought we would not give aid at all, and yet you were wrong. However, you are going to come back and say that humanitarian aid does not count for what I was saying before, and to that I say you are a fool. Russia sees this aid as more than humanitarian, and that is why today they began casually surrounding Georgian landing zones.
Before you even think to try and speak against me once again, and prove yourself incompetent in all form of nature.... once again, read every quote from Rice, and Bush, taken by the press since yesterday. The Cold War was already brought up once, which is a sign that Bush sees this as a threat to democracy and a threat to our way of life.

I do not want war with Russia, war is not a matter of want, war is a matter of human nature itself, and the need to continue in a path we already set. I promise you this; that if Russia continues conflict, there will be war. We cannot let a country believe that just because they are strong, this does not mean we will back down from a manner of war my little friend. I promise you, if they do not obey the cease-fire agreement within a month or two, there will be bloodshed.

Before you insult me once more think over what you say, I am no war monger, however I agree that in some situations war is the only answer. War is human nature, and one of the oldest ways of achieving needed answers to stability.

By the way, are you a liberal? Are you voting Obama?
Now even though you are an ignorant fool, I must say I hope you are right. But at this point you sound like you simply wish for peace, like a hippy, instead of realizing, what might have to be done. We fear no nations, for if we do, we have already lost everything my little friend. Think about it, and stop being a pansy, we must never think another country is stronger than we are, or that we must fear them because they have strength, for I believe we can take down anything we wish to. If they continue, it is not a matter of politics, it is a matter of them undermining what we set during the cold war. We cannot let countries undermine our set objectives, for we set the objective, we control the objectives, and they sit back and watch the objectives work, not the other way around.

[JLPestkeJr]

I promise I wasn't gonna say anything but I got about 3 paragraphs into your endless rable and just couldn't take it anymore, just shut the f*ck up. You want war, then you go fight. Don't wish for our troops to be picking up a fight on a third border, thats just ridiculous and quite frankly demeaning to the men and families that serve.

In c1se yUu dnt reAds goodz, war is bad numb nuts. Therefore war with Russia = bad. There, you got some grammer and math lessons all in one. Now save yourself the embarassment and go play outside with your bouncy ball.

[Ambassador]

Gentlemen -- Please feel free to debate the Georgia/Russia conflict. However, you will do it without further name calling.

Consider yourselves warned. If I see any more posts such as those above, I not only can, I will edit and/or delete them.

You can get your point across without the inflammatory comments. NSC is a DFZ! This thread is to discuss this current issue. Do not attempt to turn it into a flame war.

Any questions?

Ambassador

[JLPestkeJr]

Gotcha. No problems here, just hate to hear anyone wishing our boys back into battle, I'm outte!

No offense intended Tadpole, just don't agree with you on this one. My apologies.

[jumpingbum]

go play outside with your bouncy ball.


ROFLMAO

That was GREAT! Thank you! I loved that last sentence. I didn't much like what lead up to it, but I liked the visual imagery.

Laney, Tadpole, actually you two are on the same side, you just can't see it.
NO ONE wants war. NO ONE, unless of course they have a pathological obsession with death, destruction and trauma. What Tadpole is trying to say is that given the current administration, it is inevitable . Why? Because Bush is obsessed with starting the End Times and getting us all into Armageddon so he can go to Heaven. What? It's true.

EVERYTHING Tadpole said is spot on. How do I know? I'm married to a retired SOC guy. It's the way this administration thinks. The mind set is that Russia is not to be trusted, and Tadpole is right, they're not. Why do I say that? Because long ago, a leader of the USSR said that they would demilitarize (which they have) and lull the US into a sense of safety and then they would pound us with their fists. Or something like that:

Golitsyn was considered discredited within the CIA even before Angleton's ousting, but the two did not appear to have lost their faith in one another. They sought the assistance of William F. Buckley, Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_F._Buckley%2C_Jr.) (himself once a CIA man) in authoring New Lies for Old, which advanced the argument that the USSR planned to fake its collapse to lull its enemies into a false sense of victoryry. Buckley refused but later went on to write a novel about Angleton, Spytime: The Undoing of James Jesus Angleton.

So, here's my point: If I'm right, and I pray that I'm not; we are in the last days. You will see more and more wars and things will get worse and worse. The Fundamentalist Christian Church preaches that there will be a Rapture and the Christians will be taken away. Do I want that, Heaven without the messy process of death? SURE. Am I counting on it? Not anymore.

What do I advocate? PRAYER and LOTS of it and if that doesn't work? Everybody has to take their bouncy balls and go outside and play like nice children.

[Ambassador]

Gotcha. No problems here, just hate to hear anyone wishing our boys back into battle, I'm outte!

No offense intended Tadpole, just don't agree with you on this one. My apologies.

JLP -- Thank You!

Ambassador

[oldswabbie]

Gee...you'd think we had this war goin on there for a minute...

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n412/oldswabbie/sparta-8.gif

[Ambassador]

Swab -- You really gotta stay out of Photobucket! ;)

Ambassador

[laney]

Of course Russia is not to be trusted but Russians aren't stupid and do what they do out of self-preservation or self gain. Waging war/attacking the United States is not high up on the list of things being beneficial to Russia. You gotta look at this in the perspective of Russia to fully understand the conflict.

If you think the conflict is Georgia simply getting beaten up by a big bad bully you need to read up on the conflict. Georgia had its motivations for crushing South Ossetia (bid for NATO membership), as Russians had their reasons for protecting the South Ossetian peoples (assert sphere of influence). Russia entered Georgian territory to assert its power and to pressure Georgia to accept their terms of ceasefire. It is exactly the strategy Israel has used countless times in Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon.

I was reading that massive 3 paragraph post of yours and it lost all its structure and emphasis about 1/3 of the way into it so I stopped. I apologize for insulting your intelligence, you aren't stupid and you've asserted that. However, your view on war is certainly skewed and detrimental. Sure fighting and violence is a PART of human nature, war is not. Just because fighting is a part of our nature does not mean we shouldn't try to stop it and resolve conflicts without it. According to your logic its human nature so why should we try to stop it? I think that's terribly skewed - until you see the direct effects of war you won't understand how destructive and mad war really is.

[oldswabbie]

There is alot more going on with this conflict than meets the eye.. OIL (for once its true), geographic security.. all kinds of stuff. I was just reading Johan's post on the conflict.. very interesting.. Very interesting. Georgia is not innocent in this if the reports are true and Russia is actually doing what it says its doing - protecting and teaching a lesson. Maybe this time the US picked the wrong side? Who knows.. too dang many cards turned upside down on the table yet to know.

OldSwabbie

[spartizzle]

If we get into it with Russia or we do not, I will gladly do whatever I am told. I have faith in our leadership and will follow until the death. I agree that war is ugly JLpetske, but i do not believe that war is bad. Bad being, the reason behind entering AND exiting a said war. Bad being a selfish reason. Belief AND action in a cause that betters a fellow man(not just american men) can and will always get ugly but is NEVER EVER wrong. You will most likely disagree and that is the beautiful thing about the freedom that was won from the "bad" war. I will defend my position to the end of my time.

A bit redundant and I apologize but the point remains the same.

[spartizzle]

Dont post when I post oldswabbie lol it makes me not look as wise...jk :)

[laney]

If we get into it with Russia or we do not, I will gladly do whatever I am told. I have faith in our leadership and will follow until the death. I agree that war is ugly JLpetske, but i do not believe that war is bad. Bad being, the reason behind entering AND exiting a said war. Bad being a selfish reason. Belief AND action in a cause that betters a fellow man(not just american men) can and will always get ugly but is NEVER EVER wrong. You will most likely disagree and that is the beautiful thing about the freedom that was won from the "bad" war. I will defend my position to the end of my time.

A bit redundant and I apologize but the point remains the same.

You need to stop with the absolutes, they are just false.

A just war is necessary.

A unjust war is bad.

In any conflict, both sides think they're fighting the just war and they believe their enemies to be fighting the unjust war.

Then after you get past all the philosophical bull**** you realize war is simply about either power, land, or resources.

Agree/Disagree?

[spartizzle]

You need to stop with the absolutes, they are just false.

A just war is necessary.

A unjust war is bad.

In any conflict, both sides think they're fighting the just war and they believe their enemies to be fighting the unjust war.

Then after you get past all the philosophical bull**** you realize war is simply about either power, land, or resources.

Agree/Disagree?
So, is everything relative then? No absolute right and wrongs. Whatever end of the spectrum you choose to place your beliefs(or in the middle if there are no absolutes) there will always be a right and wrong..*PERIOD* I never said who was right in this conflict or wrong because I do not know, I was not there. BUT, dont come out and say there are no absolutes. Sorry for the philosophy if you hate it that much, im a philosophy major but none of my professors agree with me, but they also think we come from monkeys. Either way, I never said where I was on agreeing with either side, i simply said I would follow my God and country until the end.

When you say that war is about power, land, or resources, does this include the revolutionary war? civil war? I dont think so. How can you believe there is just war if all it is, is about those that you listed? It can not be if that is what your trully believe. And no need to get hostile. Like i said, it is what I believe and I use the one constant truth to back up my beliefs.

[Ambassador]

laney -- I've already issued one warning here. There is nothing wrong with discussing your beliefs/opinions with other members here. But, you will do it in a respectful manner. This is now your 2nd warning to tone it down. I trust that I'm making myself clear on this matter.

BTW -- This isn't the only thread either.

Ambassador

[jumpingbum]

I think we should either put them in separate corners or tie them together for a couple of days... Laney, could you finish filling out your public profile, please? I ask only because I'm trying to figure out where all this is coming from. Why? I went to one of the most liberal churches in the nation (United Church of Christ, second only to the Unitarians) growing up, went to one of the most liberal colleges in the nation (Oberlin) and joined the Army where I was saved by a Green Beret. Your views remind me of some of my classmates at Oberlin and I find myself wondering why someone with your views is posting on a website titled 'Navy SEALs.'

We have the former Soviet Union doing just what they said they'd do: come back. Whether this is a just or an unjust war is immaterial, really. I think it was inevitable... And the following clip (you have to CLICK on it to see it) is especially for a man with the initials J.S. :D

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l20/lahrsmash/th_This_Is_Sparta_Techno_Remix.jpg (http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l20/lahrsmash/?action=view&current=This_Is_Sparta_Techno_Remix.flv)

[laney]

I think we should either put them in separate corners or tie them together for a couple of days... Laney, could you finish filling out your public profile, please? I ask only because I'm trying to figure out where all this is coming from. Why? I went to one of the most liberal churches in the nation (United Church of Christ, second only to the Unitarians) growing up, went to one of the most liberal colleges in the nation (Oberlin) and joined the Army where I was saved by a Green Beret. Your views remind me of some of my classmates at Oberlin and I find myself wondering why someone with your views is posting on a website titled 'Navy SEALs.'

We have the former Soviet Union doing just what they said they'd do: come back. Whether this is a just or an unjust war is immaterial, really. I think it was inevitable...



So you think we will be fighting a war with Russia?

Are you implying that being a liberal is a bad thing (hope not)? Are you saying one cannot strive to be a SEAL being of the left leaning political spectrum (I'm not even politically liberal)? If you believe that my opinions expressed in this thread are of my political beliefs, that is false. My statements in this thread are trying to understand why this conflict happened and the motivations of both the Georgians and Russians. I post in this forum because I respect Navy SEALs and hold them in the highest regard as warriors ready to defend this nation and its citizens rights - not because they're killers and pro-war like you're implying?

[jumpingbum]

Since my private messages don't seem to be getting through I will write this here. I HATE having to do this.

I am on no one's side in this. I believe and PRAY we are in the last days. I PRAY every day that the rapture occurs tomorrow because I am miserable. As such I see Biblical Prophecy everywhere I look. Biblical prophecy says that Russia (aka GOG, no, not GOD, GOG) WILL attack Israel.

Okay? So. Go play with bouncy balls or whatever makes you happy. I'm TIRED of being the diplomat, tactful, humble whatever. It seems to be getting me nothing but either ignored or humiliated.

[laney]

I wrote that before I got your PMs! I don't see what is wrong with a debate. You can pray all you want but my belief is in action and not idleness. Biblical prophacy never said Russia would attack Israel, in fact Russia wasn't even a country during those times.

[jumpingbum]

I wrote that before I got your PMs! I don't see what is wrong with a debate. You can pray all you want but my belief is in action and not idleness. Biblical prophecy never said Russia would attack Israel, in fact Russia wasn't even a country during those times.

Yah. I know. PMs seem to be purty slow from my compooter. lol And yes, I know you wrote that before you got my PMs. I was referring to the fact that I felt ignored. I was throwing a temper tantrum. It was a very bad night.

I don't mind a debate. I do mind mud-slinging or when someone tries to put words in my mouth. Navy SEALs are not 'pro-war.' They are soldiers (military members, whatever generic overall term you want to use.) They are given orders and follow them out. They do not make up their own missions. Politicians do that.

Since when is prayer idleness? I am just as exhausted after praying as I am after working out. Biblical prophecy speaks of GOG and MAGOG. GOG = Russia. :p

[oldswabbie]

Laney, actually yes, Biblical prophecy does say Russia (Gog & Magog) will attack Israel. Prophecy is just that prophecy. The countries do not need to be in existence when they are written... that what makes them prophecies.

In a round about way.. this conflict was wierd like that. Over 1000 Israeli advisors along with about 1500 US SOF troops were in Georgia when Russia attacked. I think they got out of "dodge" pretty quickly.

OldSwabbie

[laney]

There are so many Russian Israeli's though! It doesn't make sense to me.

[jumpingbum]

There are so many Russian Israeli's though! It doesn't make sense to me.


Ah, one is ALWAYS a Jew first, Laney. Jews in Russia, China, all over the world have been persecuted for time immemorial. Satan has a special hatred of them because they are God's chosen people as opposed to Episcopalians who are God's 'frozen' people. lol I love that line. It's from a religion teacher in high school...

But seriously, look at history and the Old Testament, specifically, the book of Daniel.