danodec
06-11-2008, 05:26 PM
Today I attended a conference along with others from government, industry and the military. My table was a mixed group of a few from my organization and 3 others from industry.
At lunch I got to talking to the man sitting next to me from a consulting firm. I asked him where he’s from and he said Hampton, VA. “Oh right down there by the SEAL Teams?” I said. He said, “Yep.” It turns out he and the other 2 gentlemen from their group are Academy graduates (2 West Point, 1 Annapolis) and he spent 29 years in the Army, much of it with SF. Of course I started asking him questions about his story and experiences. He graduated from the US Military Academy and went Infantry before going to selection and the Q-Course.
We talked a little about what I do currently and my future plans and that got the ball rolling on SEALs and SF. Here’s my paraphrasing the best I can recall of our conversation.
--On SEALs and SF…
See the thing about SEALs is they take unnecessary risks. I know a lot of SEALs. They plan on a shoestring. They will go out on a mission with little planning or with little intel. They have an “I can do anything” attitude. You ask them “Can you do this?” the answer is always “Yeah we can do that.”
For a time I was commander of SOC in Atlantic Command and I had SEAL assets available to me. There were a few times where I said no to a mission because I didn’t think there was adequate planning. Don’t get me wrong, they are brave as hell. It’s that they take a mission that has so many risks associated with it, they compound risk upon risk, 10 risks in 1 mission. I look at them and say let’s focus on 1 risk in 1 mission. Their attitude is, “Yeah we know it’s risky…what else?”
One mission there was a Team of 6 guys. 3 pairs of swim buddies. They get dropped off over the horizon from a Mark V and take a Zodiac to about ½ mile away from target. Then they swim with rebreathers the rest of the way. Their mission was to swim into a harbor, find a submarine, and attach mines to it. Only 1 pair found the sub and successfully attached the mines. Then on the way out one operator had an equipment malfunction and had to surface, jeopardizing their safety. It’s completely dark. They are swimming in a harbor with big ships moving everywhere, it is so dangerous. Their missions are really hard. I would never want to be a SEAL, but I’m biased.
SEALs are more in a Direct Action role while SF historically is a Force Multiplier.
A lot of the guys who do SOF are smart guys, educated guys. And they do their deployments, and get out and becoming lawyers, doctors, what have you. When I was in SF we recruited from within the Army, had to be an E-4 at least to go in. We opened it up to anyone, guys off the street, from sometime in 1975-85 and we had a lot of guys who would come in and do the 1-2 deployments and then say “Well I did that now it’s time to move on.” And they go on to become lawyers and doctors. An educated guy tends to have less trouble with the training, it’s the cooks that come in from the Army who are like “Ohh…I just wanted to try it out” who have big problems. It’s like a more academic Ranger course.
--What are some of the drawbacks of being in SOF in general?
You’re deployed a lot. SF could be deployed 7 months at a time but you’re always doing something. It makes it hard to start a family. You could be in the middle of Mauritania training with a group of soldiers in the Sahara. You get liver flutes because you are drinking the water with the locals and when you come home you’re on all kinds of meds. But that’s really all part of the fun.
A lot of the guys you work with have huge egos. Who can ruck the furthest, who can run the fastest, who can do the most push ups. It’s always a **** measuring competition. These guys don’t just shoot “Expert,” they shoot “Perfect.” Every time. Well they’re not that good but their close!
Lots of responsibility. You have a lot of independence but with that comes responsibility. Being in SF and in another country working with their local people you are a representative of American policy in that country. We might be the only American presence in the entire country. If one of your guys does something stupid, you’re on the hook and you have to take responsibility for his actions. If he sneaks alcohol in or falls in love with a goat or a native girl and wants to get married. “Captain, I’m in love. I want to marry this girl.” I say “Ohhh my God.”
--What do you do if that happens?
If that happens I send that soldier home immediately. Get him outta there before he gets her pregnant or something. I know a guy from SF who, after deployment, took leave and went to the country we were just in. Brought the girl back to America and married her. They are still married today. I don’t blame him one bit, this girl is probably the most stunning girl I’ve ever met.
---------------------------
That’s the meat of our conversation. The gentleman had quite a career and served as chief of staff for USASOC (US Army Special Operations Command). It was great talking to him and he was encouraging in respect to pursuing a career in SOF. He absolutely loved it while he was in. Said they were doing some really cool stuff even back then. He did of course say I should go Army instead of Navy, haha, but admitted his bias and said SEALs are a great group. I wanted to share this info with the group because he shared a different and interesting point of view.
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.
At lunch I got to talking to the man sitting next to me from a consulting firm. I asked him where he’s from and he said Hampton, VA. “Oh right down there by the SEAL Teams?” I said. He said, “Yep.” It turns out he and the other 2 gentlemen from their group are Academy graduates (2 West Point, 1 Annapolis) and he spent 29 years in the Army, much of it with SF. Of course I started asking him questions about his story and experiences. He graduated from the US Military Academy and went Infantry before going to selection and the Q-Course.
We talked a little about what I do currently and my future plans and that got the ball rolling on SEALs and SF. Here’s my paraphrasing the best I can recall of our conversation.
--On SEALs and SF…
See the thing about SEALs is they take unnecessary risks. I know a lot of SEALs. They plan on a shoestring. They will go out on a mission with little planning or with little intel. They have an “I can do anything” attitude. You ask them “Can you do this?” the answer is always “Yeah we can do that.”
For a time I was commander of SOC in Atlantic Command and I had SEAL assets available to me. There were a few times where I said no to a mission because I didn’t think there was adequate planning. Don’t get me wrong, they are brave as hell. It’s that they take a mission that has so many risks associated with it, they compound risk upon risk, 10 risks in 1 mission. I look at them and say let’s focus on 1 risk in 1 mission. Their attitude is, “Yeah we know it’s risky…what else?”
One mission there was a Team of 6 guys. 3 pairs of swim buddies. They get dropped off over the horizon from a Mark V and take a Zodiac to about ½ mile away from target. Then they swim with rebreathers the rest of the way. Their mission was to swim into a harbor, find a submarine, and attach mines to it. Only 1 pair found the sub and successfully attached the mines. Then on the way out one operator had an equipment malfunction and had to surface, jeopardizing their safety. It’s completely dark. They are swimming in a harbor with big ships moving everywhere, it is so dangerous. Their missions are really hard. I would never want to be a SEAL, but I’m biased.
SEALs are more in a Direct Action role while SF historically is a Force Multiplier.
A lot of the guys who do SOF are smart guys, educated guys. And they do their deployments, and get out and becoming lawyers, doctors, what have you. When I was in SF we recruited from within the Army, had to be an E-4 at least to go in. We opened it up to anyone, guys off the street, from sometime in 1975-85 and we had a lot of guys who would come in and do the 1-2 deployments and then say “Well I did that now it’s time to move on.” And they go on to become lawyers and doctors. An educated guy tends to have less trouble with the training, it’s the cooks that come in from the Army who are like “Ohh…I just wanted to try it out” who have big problems. It’s like a more academic Ranger course.
--What are some of the drawbacks of being in SOF in general?
You’re deployed a lot. SF could be deployed 7 months at a time but you’re always doing something. It makes it hard to start a family. You could be in the middle of Mauritania training with a group of soldiers in the Sahara. You get liver flutes because you are drinking the water with the locals and when you come home you’re on all kinds of meds. But that’s really all part of the fun.
A lot of the guys you work with have huge egos. Who can ruck the furthest, who can run the fastest, who can do the most push ups. It’s always a **** measuring competition. These guys don’t just shoot “Expert,” they shoot “Perfect.” Every time. Well they’re not that good but their close!
Lots of responsibility. You have a lot of independence but with that comes responsibility. Being in SF and in another country working with their local people you are a representative of American policy in that country. We might be the only American presence in the entire country. If one of your guys does something stupid, you’re on the hook and you have to take responsibility for his actions. If he sneaks alcohol in or falls in love with a goat or a native girl and wants to get married. “Captain, I’m in love. I want to marry this girl.” I say “Ohhh my God.”
--What do you do if that happens?
If that happens I send that soldier home immediately. Get him outta there before he gets her pregnant or something. I know a guy from SF who, after deployment, took leave and went to the country we were just in. Brought the girl back to America and married her. They are still married today. I don’t blame him one bit, this girl is probably the most stunning girl I’ve ever met.
---------------------------
That’s the meat of our conversation. The gentleman had quite a career and served as chief of staff for USASOC (US Army Special Operations Command). It was great talking to him and he was encouraging in respect to pursuing a career in SOF. He absolutely loved it while he was in. Said they were doing some really cool stuff even back then. He did of course say I should go Army instead of Navy, haha, but admitted his bias and said SEALs are a great group. I wanted to share this info with the group because he shared a different and interesting point of view.
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.