strength before crossfit?

[cococody]

i'm 5'9, 150 lbs. would it be better to get stronger before doing crossfit and than condition down. some of the lifts are too heavy. so would you recommend starting strength or just scaling the workouts?

[bigv123]

This is just my personal opinion, nothing else. If I was 21, 5'9" and 150lbs, i'd start lifting heavy. Work your body up to the point where you could do Crossfit on one day, then do a gym workout the next. Alternate like that and do your running and swimming first thing in the AM. Take 1 day off per week on your lifting. But, like I said, you'll have to start small and GRADUALLY work your way up into that kind of program. There are NO shortcuts. The work you do today is the penance you pay to workout a little bit harder tomorrow.

V

[nomanmoonme]

i'm 5'9, 150 lbs. would it be better to get stronger before doing crossfit and than condition down. some of the lifts are too heavy. so would you recommend starting strength or just scaling the workouts?

Hey bud,
What's your background, age, experience, fitness level? There are a lot of things to take into consideration before starting any workout regimen, especially one like the WOD's being offered here. You're definately going to want to break yourself in slowly and make sure you are pacing yourself. Overtraining can be your worst enemy, you can't train if your hurt.
Nolan

[cococody]

Hey bud,
What's your background, age, experience, fitness level? There are a lot of things to take into consideration before starting any workout regimen, especially one like the WOD's being offered here. You're definately going to want to break yourself in slowly and make sure you are pacing yourself. Overtraining can be your worst enemy, you can't train if your hurt.
Nolan

21 years old, always been slender, packed on a little weight after my daughter was born. I was doing crossfit for 4 or 5 months, not all work outs I can do the prescribed weight, wasn't strong enough. I can run 5 miles in under 40 mins and 3 miles at 22 minutes. I haven't maxed out in the lifts, but my bench is probably around 165 lbs, press 85 lbs, deadlift 225. and squat 200. I can do 16 good dead hang pullups. last PT test was 71 pushups 79 sit ups in 2 mins. and 13:15 , two mile.

I bought the "starting strength" book and just trying to figure out what direction I should go in, I dont want to build on too much mass and not be able to run/pushups/pullups/situps and all the other cardio. but i do know i need to be a lot stronger, i always wanted a 200+ bench, 300+ squat/deadlift.

thanks.

[cococody]

another problem is the mean part, would like 5-6 meals through out the day. just not sure how to eat and the exact meals is another problem. i will have more time dedicated when i get back from Iraq in May.

[nomanmoonme]

Was that an ARMY PT test? I used to be in the Infantry in the 82nd.

Well you definately started in the right place. I did a lot of bodybuilding type lifting when I was in the army but was never really able to gain the practical strength like I have with CrossFit. I've been CrossFitting for almost 2 years now and I can honestly say that I'm probably in the best shape I've ever been in. I haven't max'd bench in forever but I consistently do better with my dl, sq, and sp whenever I do my CrossFit total. I would say work towards nailing the WOD's at the rx'd weight, even if your times aren't rocket ship fast if you know what I mean. Don't sacrifice form to the point of injury or anything like that, if you are unable to execute a lift properly then scale the weight. But, with Fran for example, if a 95lb thruster is difficult and would take you a while but achievable then use that weight. Same with something like Dianne, 225lb deadlift and HSPU's. If you can only get the DL in sets of 3 or 5 then do it as long as you are using good form. To really push it with the strength you can try alternating workouts between strength and metcon. The metabolic conditioning from the NavySEALs WOD's is top notch I would definately stick with those. For strength stuff you could do workouts from Starting Strength or try the site www.performancemenu.com. They have some awesome strength and power workouts similar to those on CrossFit. You could try a 3 day split: NavySEALS, Performance, NavySEALS, rest, Performance, NS, Performance, rest. My buddy does almost that exact split and he is a straight animal. He weighs 159 lbs and his max squat is 330!! Well I guess I've talked enough, hope this helps. Train Hard!

[nomanmoonme]

another problem is the mean part, would like 5-6 meals through out the day. just not sure how to eat and the exact meals is another problem. i will have more time dedicated when i get back from Iraq in May.

Diet is wicked important dude. I was in Fallujah, Iraq for seven months and I know that the chow there was pretty consistent if I wanted it to be. As long as I stayed away from the short order I was good. Lots of protein and good carbs should give you what you want. Weight should come eventually but remember, "Lean is light, light is fast." It's better to be strong and light then big and slow in my onpinion.

[rord]

i'm 5'9, 150 lbs. would it be better to get stronger before doing crossfit and than condition down. some of the lifts are too heavy. so would you recommend starting strength or just scaling the workouts?

The weights listed in the WODs are what is recommended for an elite level, experienced CrossFitter. If they're too heavy for you, scale them down. If you are interested in athletic or warrior training, it's important to have a program that has a variety of training modalities. In CrossFit the training is multi dimensional, which means that you will gain strength as you progress in all of the other 9 physical skills.

My recommendation is to stick with the WODs. It looks like you have a good height/weight ratio to work from. Stick with the WODs, give them your all, and remember to have fun.

Hoo-Yah!!

[JLPestkeJr]

Coco - I'm in the same boat you you man. I'm 5'8", 157lbs with about 7-8% body fat. I was doing crossfit for awhile and had some pretty good times but I wasn't happy with my longer runs and had to scale the heavy upper body lifts (particularly presses) down to fit my level. I've backed off the crossfit for now and alternate upper/lower stength days in with my regular carido... seems to be working for now, just did my first HSPU's yesterday with EASE!! =) If I was you, I'd set a strength (lifting goal) and hit that before working on the crossfit stuff, but hey maybe thats just me.

~Jim

[Neumeister]

Scale the Workouts. The only thing that gets you better at crossfit is doing crossfit.

[sonovthegun]

I agree with what Neumeister said. Nothing preps you for the pain and lack of muscular response you get when you do it all together. No matter what your good at, no matter what your "thing" is, you're sure to suck at it after runninng 800 meters and swinging 50 lbs around like a monkey. It's humbling.

Lots of guys here seem to do extra AFTER or on top of the CF WODs. I do extra pullups for example. But if you're worried about that, just do the SealFit combined WODs and your @$$ will be draggin for sure.

Hoo-Yah.

[sonovthegun]

Of course, Rord posted his two cents. It's his site, and he's spot on. Trust Rord and thank him. He'll take you a long way.

Hoo-Yah

[sorry for the double post]

[JLPestkeJr]

I'll give you that much. Crossfit is always a good cardio workout but I find scaling the workouts makes them too 'easy'. Obviously they're no walk in the park but for a lot of the workouts I was finding I physically incapable of doing some of the lifts so I scaled them down... which meant I could have done them for hours. It's designed to be continuous high-intensity. Maybe I'm just bad at scaling my weights but I found that doing so drastically decreases the intensity of the workout as a whole.


~jim

[rord]

Jim,
This is a great forum topic, and I'm glad cococody brought it up.

The general population's idea of fitness has been tainted by years of body building principles, which are great for building muscle mass but not for becoming quick and explosive on the sporting or battlefield. Beware of programs that have as their main goal to build mass. Generally that means isolation exercises that in the end make you slower and less athletic. Starting Strength is a great powerlifting program, which is one of the main components of CrossFit (just look at the number of videos on CrossFit.com by Mark Rippetoe).

If you scale weights down to the point that you are able to do a CrossFit WOD all day, then I suggest that you've scaled down too much. I work with dozens of people every day on a one-on-one basis, and I know that every one of them is unique in their genetics and fitness objectives. Based on that I try to scale weights appropriately for them so that they get the best stimulus for the response that they desire.

Scaling weights for a CrossFit workout is an acquired skill. If your looking to gain strength, do the WODs as prescribed, slower and take more rests. No, your times will not be competitive with some others, but as you get stronger, you will see your times pick up. Remember that CrossFit is supposed to be so much more than just a good cardio workout.

It's about stimulus and response. Keep training. I hope this helps.

[cococody]

I want to meet some strength goals which don't seem to bad just a good few months of heavy eating and lifting. I like CrossFit and what it's about, I just think it's easier to get strength from heavier training than condition that muscle down to CrossFit style.

Some of the goals I would like to move from, 150 lbs to around 165 lbs in body weight.

Move Barbbell bench from 165 lbs to 200 lbs.

Press 85 lbs to 135 lbs

Deadlift from 235 lbs to 335 lbs

Squat from 200 lbs to 300 lbs

I think the heavy weights will help build up my core, just gotta hit the weights hard. I use to sweat a lot CrossFitting but the weightlifting doesnt mess with me too much.

[sfaulk]

Sir, Coach Rutman addresses this topic in an article titled "Max Effort Black Box". The article gives a template for additional weight lifting paired with CrossFit workouts. The article is available in the store section of the Performance Menu website. Thank you. Scott

[king henry viii]

I want to meet some strength goals which don't seem to bad just a good few months of heavy eating and lifting. I like CrossFit and what it's about, I just think it's easier to get strength from heavier training than condition that muscle down to CrossFit style.

Some of the goals I would like to move from, 150 lbs to around 165 lbs in body weight.

Move Barbbell bench from 165 lbs to 200 lbs.

Press 85 lbs to 135 lbs

Deadlift from 235 lbs to 335 lbs

Squat from 200 lbs to 300 lbs

I think the heavy weights will help build up my core, just gotta hit the weights hard. I use to sweat a lot CrossFitting but the weightlifting doesnt mess with me too much.

At 165 lbs, to be classified as an elite athlete you should be:

bench - 1.5 times your bodyweight
squat - 2 times your bodyweight
dead - 2.5 times your bodyweight

so, kick up the bench to about 245, squat to about 325, dead to about 415.

[Neumeister]

cococody, good luck with the strength training. remember to lift really heavy, never doing more that 5 reps in a set. Also, check out Pavel tsatsouline's Power to the People book, its a short easy and efficient way to gain strength without size.

[cococody]

At 165 lbs, to be classified as an elite athlete you should be:

bench - 1.5 times your bodyweight
squat - 2 times your bodyweight
dead - 2.5 times your bodyweight

so, kick up the bench to about 245, squat to about 325, dead to about 415.

those are some good numbers, appreicate everyone's help.