Is milk bad for you???

[SaveAirInBottles]

I've been reading up on the Paleolithic diet and it suggests to cut most dairy out. I did some digging and started pulling up articles about how bad milk is for you. They link milk and calcium to cancer and osteoporosis. Now I can't decide how much milk and calcium I should have. Any input or suggestions would be helpful.

This is where I found most of the information....http://nomilk.com/

[itsallorganek]

There are some people on here who can probably help you out more then me, but I always thought milk was good for you because of the calcium and the slow digesting protein. The down side is that its high in fat, if your not drinking skim or 1 % of course. I think most kids grow up drinking milk at dinner because their parents tell them it will build strong bones!! :p

Big V, any thoughts?

[bigv123]

Sure, I've always got some thoughts :)

If you're needing to drop bodyfat, you're going to want to cut as much dairy out of your diet as possible. The protein you get from those sources is great, but, the fat can add up pretty quick, and it's not "good" fat either. But more importantly, the sugar...it's world-renown. You can get "fat-free" dairy products. But, the sugar, lactose, is one of the worst on the planet. And, for milk, every ounce has 1g of protein, and 1.5g of lactose.

If, on the other hand, you're looking to add some mass and don't mind a little fat...milk can be a wonderful option. Just make sure you're watching your numbers and paying attention to your diet...in either case.

Hope that helps,
V

[king henry viii]

Sure, I've always got some thoughts :)

If you're needing to drop bodyfat, you're going to want to cut as much dairy out of your diet as possible. The protein you get from those sources is great, but, the fat can add up pretty quick, and it's not "good" fat either. But more importantly, the sugar...it's world-renown. You can get "fat-free" dairy products. But, the sugar, lactose, is one of the worst on the planet. And, for milk, every ounce has 1g of protein, and 1.5g of lactose.

If, on the other hand, you're looking to add some mass and don't mind a little fat...milk can be a wonderful option. Just make sure you're watching your numbers and paying attention to your diet...in either case.

Hope that helps,
V

BigV, if the sugar in milk is so bad for you, what would you recommend as a good substitute for chocolate milk? I probably drink a half gallon of that per day.

[bigv123]

if the sugar in milk is so bad for you, what would you recommend as a good substitute for chocolate milk? I probably drink a half gallon of that per day.

Ummm...a "good" substitute? How about heroin? J/K J/K....

Are you trying to lose fat? If not, pound it away KH8. Just try not to pump too much sugar into your system at once. If you were drinking an entire half-gallon in a single sitting, that could be problematic.

If you ARE trying to lose fat, you're going to have to cut out as much sugar as humanly possible. Period. There's just no way around this.

V

[scskowron]

May be a stupid question, but is there such thing as sugar-free milk or low-sugar milk?

[king henry viii]

Ummm...a "good" substitute? How about heroin? J/K J/K....

Are you trying to lose fat? If not, pound it away KH8. Just try not to pump too much sugar into your system at once. If you were drinking an entire half-gallon in a single sitting, that could be problematic.

If you ARE trying to lose fat, you're going to have to cut out as much sugar as humanly possible. Period. There's just no way around this.

V

Pretty much no fat left to lose BigV, so I guess I'll keep pounding it away.

[SaveAirInBottles]

So what are your thoughts on milk/calcium contributing to osteoporosis?

[bigv123]

Outside of my knowledge base. I always thought calcium helped prevent Osteoporosis...but, *shrug*

DD would be a much better source on this.

V

[bigv123]

Scs,
Yes, I remember using a low sugar brand back when I was in college. Not sure if it, or something like it, is still around. Might have to go to a Whole Foods type store.

V

[SaveAirInBottles]

Thanks for the help bigv123 and everyone else

[skie]

Dam n Ben and Jerry's. I had peanut butter cup yesterday. I find myself eating sweet stuff when I have a hardcore session of studying. Any alternatives that aren't expensive?

[SaveAirInBottles]

Apples and yogurt do it for me bud. Fills me up and is fairly good for you, try it out.

[bk0078]

there are two sides to argue for milk. the bad sides include-
1- lactose. this compound has a side effect of boosting up levels of mucus levels (in the nasal passags, and in the stomach) to bread down the extra long peptide bonds in milk.
2- were the only mammals on earth who drink it after we have been maimed!

good side-
1-it has calcium which is good for bones AND MUSCLE CONTRACTIONS. people if you didnt know, calcium is the gate opener to maek your muscles contractility increase. (more calcium, better performance, for the most part).
2- BALANCE. ever look at some drinks out there? most are loaded with carbs from sugar and have high fructose corn syrup, which is TERRIBLE for you. the balance lie is the fat, carbs, and protein. you need all three of these macro nutrients, so drink up.

it all comes down to if yuo can tolerate the feeling of mucus in your throat from the lactose. if you can tolerate it then there is no reason to not drink it. if you cant i reccomend eating leafy greens to make up for the lack of calcium (spinach and broccoli are best).

[bigv123]

Well, you talk about the high fructose drinks, and we agree that they're overloading you on sugar. But, milk has perhaps THE worst sugar of all...Lactose. And, it has it in spades! 1.5g per ounce of milk! You can supplement calcium via a daily multi. If you can find a reduced lactose brand, I say go for it.

V

[JLPestkeJr]

Lactose-70 ya'll. good stuff, tastes like cream. mmm

[pittguy]

Well, I'm not a doctor or a nutritionist, but I do follow a strict diet, I log everything I eat, and I measure everything out. Speaking purely from experience, this past two months I tweeked my regular diet by adding four 8oz servings of 2% milk per day. I'm 5'8". I was 150 lbs with 10.1% body fat. In the last two months I stuck my regular diet with the added milk, and I didn't change my workouts or anything else. I am now 162 lbs with 9.9% body fat. I agree with everything said here, on paper, milk is really not good for you. Lactose really isn't good for you, but in practice, it doesn't seem to have worked that way. In fact, even my bench press jumped from 220 to 240 in the past two months. So, take what I say with a grain of salt because I know everyone reacts differently to diets, but I have to say that milk seems to have worked very well for me.

[bigv123]

Perhaps you would have gotten the same, or even better, results if you would have just added 32g of protein and 48g of carbs from ANY source. What if those sources had been HIGHER quality proteins and carbs but in the same amount?? Get my point?

V

[pittguy]

Hey BigV, you're absolutely correct and I agree with you. Probably adding egg protein and dextrose would've produced the same or possibly better results. Personally, I just like to drink milk anyways cause it tastes good, but the added protein and carbs is likely the cause of my weight gain. You've got alot of solid, quality information on here. I was only sharing my experience to say that milk isn't necessarily the best thing for you, and there are better sources of protein and carbs, but it still seems to be a good source of nutrients so I wouldn't remove from your diet as the Paleolithic diet or nomilk.com suggest.

[bigv123]

rgr rgr

I'm not here to rail against milk. It's got its place. In fact, way back when I was in a bulking phase I would use milk in all my shakes each day (3 each day). When I'm leaning out, I use water. Use the right tool for the job.

V

[Courtenay]

rgr rgr

I'm not here to rail against milk. It's got its place. In fact, way back when I was in a bulking phase I would use milk in all my shakes each day (3 each day). When I'm leaning out, I use water. Use the right tool for the job.

V

Well, just because it is my personal job to disagree with you V, there has been very strong evidence lately which supports the idea that milk is actually a tool for weight LOSS. That dairy has been given a bad rap in the modern "diet" game.

The debate on the controversial issue of milk and dairy and weight loss is far from over. Although there is evidence that getting three servings a day of low-fat or fat-free dairy products can enhance weight loss, this evidence IS inconclusive. But, even if further evidence shows that dairy products have little or no effect on weight loss, they are still good sources of calcium and Vitamin D, which are essential for bone health. Fat free diary is apparently not connected to weight GAIN in any of the research.

Of course, most of the research notes that calcium is the key in milk which aids in its possible weight management abilities.....so why not just take calcium supplements and skip the milk? Because the effects seems to be more dramatic when it’s taken in the form of dairy products. Leading calcium expert, Dr Michael Zemel and colleagues, analyzed the diets of 32 obese adults and discovered that those people eating three servings of low-fat dairy products a day lost more than 10% of their body weight. In contrast, those taking calcium supplements or those who had little calcium or dairy in their diet lost only 6% of their body weight.

To me, every effort should be made to restore milk and dairy to its rightful place in a healthy diet. V, you are old enough to remember when kids didn't consume fast food, they drank milk (gasp...whole milk even) with every meal, and none of our friends were over-weight....(other than maybe the one fat kid at school who obviously had genetics to fight with.)

[YoungerPope]

HEB carries a brand of milk called "Mootopia" that is lactose-free and has 60% less sugar than regular milk, 35% more calcium, 75% more protein, 4 grams of carbs, and is enhanced with vitamins A and D. I haven't tried it yet but my trainers at the Crossfit affiliate I work out at recommended it to me. They said it works well with the Zone, too.

Also it's important for everybody to remember that magnesium is as important as calcium for bone strength.

[bigv123]

Well, just because it is my personal job to disagree with you V

*hugs* ;)

You're right, there ARE some really good things about dairy products. Certainly the amount of type of Calcium and Vitamin D provided are excellent as is the protein. The worrisome issue is the milk sugar. For folks that are very lean, this isn't an issue at all...you all drink away! For others, it's problematic.

I'll look into the details of Dr. Zemel's study. It's hard to really cover all the bases of a case study in a forum post. I'd like to see how he conducted his tests and what his control group was like...things like that. It may be that the age old axiom of "the first thing you do to drop fat is cut out ALL dairy" is coming to an end...or, it could just be the Dairy Farmers of America doing a better job of marketing their product. It'll be interesting...

V

[Courtenay]

I'll look into the details of Dr. Zemel's study. It's hard to really cover all the bases of a case study in a forum post. I'd like to see how he conducted his tests and what his control group was like...things like that. It may be that the age old axiom of "the first thing you do to drop fat is cut out ALL dairy" is coming to an end...or, it could just be the Dairy Farmers of America doing a better job of marketing their product. It'll be interesting...

V

This applies mainly to women's health.....but it gives you the gist

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=52485

[bigv123]

Thanks for the link Court. I read it, the study isn't really about dairy at all, the study centers around CALCIUM and it's role in fat metabolism. There's no mystery there, calcium is mandatory. But, you can get excellent caclium from other sources than dairy products. I use Universal's Animal Pack about an hour before every workout. Here's a review:

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/supplements-reviews/animal-pak-review.html

So...it's really not the milk that's doing the work here, it's the calcium found in the milk. I think the best of both worlds would be to cut the milk out and supplement the calcium in a non-caloric way (read: multi-vitamin/mineral)

V

[scskowron]

*hugs* ;)

You're right, there ARE some really good things about dairy products. Certainly the amount of type of Calcium and Vitamin D provided are excellent as is the protein. The worrisome issue is the milk sugar. For folks that are very lean, this isn't an issue at all...you all drink away! For others, it's problematic.


So BigV there's no worry about drinking a lot of milk if you're not gaining fat or interested in losing fat?

[bigv123]

there's no worry about drinking a lot of milk if you're not gaining fat or interested in losing fat?

correct. Presuming that your "or" was really intended to be a "nor". Not to be a grammar nazi or anything...just want to be clear.

V

[scskowron]

correct. Presuming that your "or" was really intended to be a "nor". Not to be a grammar nazi or anything...just want to be clear.

V

Ah yes, good catch. I'm a grammar freak myself; should have caught myself.
But I'm a pretty slim guy without much body fat and so far I haven't had much problem drinking a lot of milk. I think I'm going to continue unless there's strong reason not to do so.

[Courtenay]

No V (or should I say resident stud-muffin....ha ha, I crack myself up), read again, it is about calcium's effect when delivered in the form of dairy. THAT is what the study was about. He just happens to be a calcium guru of sorts. What I haven't been able to determine yet is if the American Dairy Association sponsored the research. So far, no there's no indication of such, but you did make a good point.....there could be ties.

[Courtenay]

correct. Presuming that your "or" was really intended to be a "nor". Not to be a grammar nazi or anything...just want to be clear.

V

Hmmm, explain to me why a "nor" is more appropriate there. I am not seeing it.

[bigv123]

not gaining fat or interested in losing fat

He doesn't want either thing. He doesn't want to gain fat and he's not interested in losing any fat. Thus is the thing after the or is also to be excluded, which I'm presuming it is because that would make logical sense then you have to have a "nor". Otherwise it reads:

'I either don't want to gain fat or I'm interested in losing fat'

As opposed to...

'I don't want to gain fat or lose fat'

see the difference? Then again, I might have that all backwards. I'm no Rhodes Scholar. ;)

V

[Courtenay]

'I don't want to gain fat or lose fat'

see the difference? Then again, I might have that all backwards. I'm no Rhodes Scholar. ;)

V

That one would definitely be a "nor". I don't want to gain fat, nor lose fat.

"There's no worry about drinking a lot of milk if you're not gaining fat or interested in losing fat?"

I guess "nor" would be 'better'....but maybe not necessary. You guys probably know better than I, it's been a lot of years for me since taking any grammar classes.

[bigv123]

it's been a lot of years for me since taking any grammar classes.

lol...me TOO. I'll buy you a beer and we'll talk about it sometime.

V

[Courtenay]

lol...me TOO. I'll buy you a beer and we'll talk about it sometime.

V

Get to BUD/s man and I'll buy YOU a beer. I'll fly out to Coronado for it. (of course since San Diego is "home" it'll be such torture)

[yosemite sam]

BigV, long time reader, new poster here. Thank you for all of your informative posts. Very helpful to all.

Does low-fat plain yogurt fall under your (negative) assessment of dairy products?

Thanks in advance.

[bigv123]

Sam,
Yogurt really varies quite a bit brand to brand. First, when making dietary choices make sure you have your goal(s) in mind. Do I need to make body composition changes (lose fat or gain muscle being by far the most common) or do I simply need to work on increasing my performance and endurance?

In specific regards to yogurt, don't be scared of the word "fat". Fats do a LOT of good things in your body. Immune system support, joint and connective tissue support, maintaining core body temp, protein synthesis...it goes on and on. The key is to make sure you're getting GOOD fats. I personally don't eat much dairy at all, so I don't have the fat profile of yogurts memorized. Take a good look at the product label.

Second, if you are working on trimming fat, watch out for the sugar. You should be able to find some low sugar or perhaps even sugar-free options. If you're not working on trimming fat, and the rest of your diet is in good order, this shouldn't be an issue.

Hope that helps.

V

[bigv123]

Get to BUD/s man and I'll buy YOU a beer. I'll fly out to Coronado for it. (of course since San Diego is "home" it'll be such torture)

You've got a deal Court :)

V

[yosemite sam]

Very helpful! Thanks very much......