Chest/Armor Rigs

[Tonio_pr04]

I recently came back from a deployment to Iraq (I'm Air Force, Security Forces NOT SOF) and while there bought the Combat Integrated Releasable Armor System because I didnt like the armor system I was issued. It worked well for me but I was wondering what else is out there or what other systems and rigs work for other people.

[Lycurgus]

I have a bunch of rigs...depends on what I'm doing. What's your question?

[MeatHead08]

Lycurgus,
sorry to hijack, but this thread reminded me about all the controversy with the Dragon Skin armor. Have you used or know any one that has used this before and how did it work? There were reports (sorry cant find the link to the article) that the Army ran a bunch of tests on it and said that it failed "horribly"... but from what I remember, the people running the tests were somehow involved with the makers of the Army's current issue armor system.

[leahy_j]

i don't know much about the dragon skin, but i watched the futureweapons that showed it. by the looks of it, it was pretty amazing, it stopped every bullet fired at it, everything from a 9mm, 5.56, to a 7.62.... and they fired quite a few rounds into it. then they took the same vest, after it was filled with bullets, and detonated a grenade underneath it. the plates all held together, but the blast still wrecked the dummy behind it....from what the show presented, it was an amazing piece of equipment.. maybe it is really heavy or something, i don't know

[Lycurgus]

I've heard it's ****ty. I know a guy who was shot in his *issued* body armor 16 times by an AK47 (7.62mm) and is still alive. If it ain't broke....don't fix it :)

[buonan]

Its my understanding that the dragon skin armor lost its NIJ rating because it cant back up it's 5 year warrantee.

[knight32]

From what I understand, Dragon Skin is simply unreliable in extreme weather. I'm afraid I cannot cite a reference, but I remember reading or seeing that while Dragon Skin performs exceptionally well at room temperature, when exposed to heat its performance drops dramatically below that of the current standard issue body armor. It said something about the plates becoming very brittle, almost like clay, and obviously that dramatically decreased its ability to protect its wearer.

[MeatHead08]

I've heard it's ****ty. I know a guy who was shot in his *issued* body armor 16 times by an AK47 (7.62mm) and is still alive. If it ain't broke....don't fix it :)

Are you talking about the SEAL who was clearing a room and ended up taking down 4 guys with his sidearm? If so, I read that story on socnetcentral.com... truly amazing!

[mgsxmike]

Are you talking about the SEAL who was clearing a room and ended up taking down 4 guys with his sidearm? If so, I read that story on socnetcentral.com... truly amazing!

Can you please tell me the topic title of that?

[MeatHead08]

http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?t=70111

[infantry_scout]

I remember hearing that some soldiers where killed while wearing Dragon Skin in conjunction with their issued IBA, they were just using the side plates from the dragon skin, with their issued chest and back plates. They were denied their life insurance because it was an unauthorized piece of equipment.

[thepho]

From what I understand, Dragon Skin is simply unreliable in extreme weather. I'm afraid I cannot cite a reference, but I remember reading or seeing that while Dragon Skin performs exceptionally well at room temperature, when exposed to heat its performance drops dramatically below that of the current standard issue body armor. It said something about the plates becoming very brittle, almost like clay, and obviously that dramatically decreased its ability to protect its wearer.

to this, the degree of heat it takes to render the Dragon skin ineffective is at/above 150 degrees fahrenheit.
the soldier would die of heat stroke before ever getting shot through the armor, of course if this was true.

and a marine at my recruiter's station said that the interceptors 100% reliable, and theres nothing really flawed about it.

i cant really say about these two things being said, but i do know that the interceptor armor is about $1000, and the dragon skin is about $5000. if the interceptor can block a 7.62 bullet just as efficiently as a dragon skin armor, but can resist the high temperatures that the dragon skin was said to be rendered ineffective, then its only right to say that the interceptors your choice of armor....

[rsctt83]

I am a stockholder in Point Blank which produces the Interceptor vest and components. I saw the Dragon Skin being tested on Future Weapons with outstanding results. I was very interested in investing and when I did due diligence I read where those tests were flawed and that the product does not perform to near those levels. I believe that I read that the product actually failed alot of tests. I feel badly that I cannot cite the references, I will research this and post references when I find them.

[thepho]

I am a stockholder in Point Blank which produces the Interceptor vest and components. I saw the Dragon Skin being tested on Future Weapons with outstanding results. I was very interested in investing and when I did due diligence I read where those tests were flawed and that the product does not perform to near those levels. I believe that I read that the product actually failed alot of tests. I feel badly that I cannot cite the references, I will research this and post references when I find them.

these tests were 100% independent right? because there has been alot of skepticism around the tests run by the army for some reason.

[rsctt83]

thepho

I am not sure who conducted the test, I just cannot recall where I read it. I need to research this and get back to you.

[thatguy2695]

A general for The U.S Army wore Dragon skin to Iraq. The CIA cleared Dragon skin to be worn by there operators. A Blackwater operator was recorded to being shot 3 times in the back While in Iraq and he claimed he barely felt the rounds hit him during combat and wasn't sure he was shot till someone pointed out the holes in the fabric. All Independent tests have passed with flying colors. The Army got it and it failed miserably... I'm not saying anything but I think the Army knows that the Interceptor is an effective body armor and that a 5x price hike per soldier would be a lot of money especially to overhaul the system. Also the Army Baned Dragon skin 2 weeks(or months can't remember) before they even started testing. I watched a bunch of videos and read up on Why Dragon skin wasn't being used when it was brought before Congress. and that is all the stuff I found. Also the Army claims that angled shots can go between the plates.

[rsctt83]

Thanks for posting that. I remember a few years ago when there were recalls of Interceptor vest that also failed the Army testing due to either fabric or ceramic insert deficiencies. I remember the price of than DHB {manufacturer of Interceptor} took a big hit. DHB had to replace a significant amount of vest and if I recall there were never any injuries as a result of vest not performing in the field. It never ceases to amaze me how beaurocracy gets in the way of innovation when lives are at stake

[rsctt83]

I went over to Pinnacle Armor website to see if the company has conducted any independent research/testing to refute Army claims. They list two links to independent tests but these were conducted prior to Army test back in fall of 2006. I am by no means an expert in this subject but i find it very curious that company would not engage an independent testing agency to refute Army test results unless there was a serious problem that required redesign. If it were me and I believed the Army test results were flawed I would hire testing agency to perform the same tests to support my product.

I remember the test done on Future Weapons TV show were remarkable, I believe Mack placed armor over IED and the product performed perfectly.

[chakramedia]

Here's a great site with some decent info on the Dragon Skin vs Interceptor debate :

http://sftt.org/

[thatguy2695]

anybody watch Rockos modern life... "You can't fight city hall you can't fight corporate America" haha anyway
watch these
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tKnfHhRl7U0&feature=related

The Former Marine that designed The Interceptor says Dragon Skin is better...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KTrTrsJu3pk

[Mac679]

Dragonskin is not the end all be all of body armor. Something about the little hard plates in it falling to the bottom of the vest over time. Sitting for long periods of time apparently accelerates the problem. I've heard too much negative about Dragon Skin from people I trust that you could not pay me to wear it... If it's so great, why do none of the SOF that can get their own equipment wear it?

Are there better options out there than the IBA and IOTV? Yes

Do the IBA and IOTV work? Yes

Remember something, a Soldier's body armor is a helluva lot cheaper than his $400K SGLI. They don't give us the top of the line stuff, Paraclete comes to mind, but they don't give us crap either.

[oldswabbie]

I remember the test done on Future Weapons TV show were remarkable, I believe Mack placed armor over IED and the product performed perfectly.

I watched that show too, very impressive stuff. You would hope that Mack having been a Navy SEAL wouldnt espouse something to fighting men that he himself didnt think was effectual... You would hope.