swim pst time

[rjwakeham@hotmail.com]

how crucial is your pst swim time--is it a determining factor as to you passing BUDs or not--only asking becuase mine pst time is around 12:00 (yeah, not to good), but my other scores are decent.

[king henry viii]

how crucial is your pst swim time--is it a determining factor as to you passing BUDs or not--only asking becuase mine pst time is around 12:00 (yeah, not to good), but my other scores are decent.

well, I read an article on the website that discussed swim times and run times and success during BUD/S. I think it said something like if your run and your swim are both less than 10:07 then you have a 55% chance of graduating. That being said, someone posted about a week ago, it might have been BUD/S 267, i can't be sure, and he said how the PST really doesn't count for much. If you can swim long distance at a moderate pace you should be fine. Don't forget that with the ocean swims you'll be using fins which should help some with your speed.

[king henry viii]

correction. Run less than 9:33 and swim less than 10:11 = 55% graduate.

[king henry viii]

alright this is straight from BUD/S 267 post.

Swimming seems to be a huge issue for many guys at BUD/s. Running as well, but I'm using this time to discuss swimming. You see, even with a flashy PST score that says you can swim a sub 9... 8 or even 7 min. test (Yep, guys can swim in the 6's too) you can still be susceptible to failing to meet the more long distance aspects of training (i.e.: Bay swims, Ocean swims, pool swims...) I've seen too many good guys get rolled or dropped because they couldn't hack the long swims or even move through the water with fins. In fact, there was a guy in my class who swam an 8 something PST every week back in July but couldn't swim with fins to save his life. I think he actually swam slower to tell you the truth! He ended up getting rolled and I'm not too sure what's happened since???

[palmach]

alright this is straight from BUD/S 267 post.

Swimming seems to be a huge issue for many guys at BUD/s. Running as well, but I'm using this time to discuss swimming. You see, even with a flashy PST score that says you can swim a sub 9... 8 or even 7 min. test (Yep, guys can swim in the 6's too) you can still be susceptible to failing to meet the more long distance aspects of training (i.e.: Bay swims, Ocean swims, pool swims...) I've seen too many good guys get rolled or dropped because they couldn't hack the long swims or even move through the water with fins. In fact, there was a guy in my class who swam an 8 something PST every week back in July but couldn't swim with fins to save his life. I think he actually swam slower to tell you the truth! He ended up getting rolled and I'm not too sure what's happened since???That is the profile of:Not using the BUD/s Warning Order. Anyone even considering going to BUD/s, needs to train
with fins and run alot, in the SAND etc. When I took the PST, guys were cheating in the swim, evolution.

[deadly nedly]

To rephrase what's already been said, your swim PST time isn't as important as your ability to swim. Although at 12:00, it's pretty damn slow. If you say your other numbers are good, then the culprit is obviously your technique in the water. Watch that youtube video, get stew smith's DVD, or even better, get a dive motivator to help you out if there's one in your area.

Personally I learned total immersion first, then got stew smith's dvd, then watched the youtube video, and clocked who knows how many meters in the pool. Over 150,000M per year for the past 2 years. Seemed to work pretty well. Good luck my friend.

[SilentSnake]

There certainly is a correlation between PST scores and graduation rates. Such as King Henry viii posted, and another one i've seen: Swim: sub 9min, Push-ups: 100+, Sit-ups: 100+, Pull-ups:20+, Run: sub 9min = 85% graduation rate.

So, as deadly nedly said, other areas may be more important than just the raw scores themselves. I mean look at those last numbers. Those are stud scores, and yet at least 15% of the people posting PST's like did not graduate. And yet, at least 6% of the people making the bare minimums graduated. Meaning, the scores are a good determinant of your ability and liklihood of success, but they're other factors that play into your success at BUD/S.

[silversurfer_27]

an interesting training method my recruiter told is to not shoot for a flashy pst...but to be able to meet the minimums 3 times in a row (taking the pst AND PASSING IT back-to-back-to-back)...BUD/S is a marathon, not sprint...

[dive doc]

Ill add just a few points on this one.

Wakeham, that swim time does need to improve. I know its easy to forget sometimes with all the focus on PST times etc, but remember you are applying and training for Naval Special Warfare. The water will become your haven, your sanctuary and your second home. More than anything else, you MUST be proficient and VERY comfortable in the water. I think you knew the answer to your own question before you asked it. Work on your swim, your stroke, your technique and get into the pool as often as you can. The more you swim, the greater the improvement you will see.

The other posts are correct. There has been a very strong correlation with success rates for graduation at BUD/S compared with the PST times. But remember, you must have the heart and the balls to go with those times as well.

Operators and guys that have completed BUD/S have said repeatedly in the forums that you are going to take a pounding. You really have to be able to run and swim consistently, even when you are dog tired and hurting. As silver said, it really is a marathon. Your flashy 1.5 mile doesnt count for much if you cant make the 4 mile run each week. I like the idea of doing the 3 PSTs back-back-back. It would really give you the opportunity to push yourself.

A few guys i have talked to have also said that the closer you get to boot and your PST, be working up to 5 PSTs a day, ~4-6 wks before you do the PST (the time frame differed but the principle was the same). If you can start consistently knocking them out with good (not flashy, but competitive) numbers and times it has a 2-fold effect (apart from 7.5 miles running and 2,500m swimming of course). The PST becomes VERY familiar to you, you will recognize your strong and weak points, you will know just when in the run and the swim you can turn on the afterburner and go balls to the wall for your best times. It also helps you identify areas where you might be consistently weak. Secondly, psychologically, you will own the PST. Your level of confidence in doing the PST will increase and will contribute to a maximum performance on the actual day of your PST.

[bud/s sucks]

PST's mean diddly when it comes to making it through BUD/S. My best ever PST swim was a 9:12, average of 9:20. My best ever PST run was an 8:4x, average of 9:4x. Best ever BUD/S 4miler was 27:08, best ever 2 mile swim being 70:02. Never failed a run, never failed an o-course, never, in good health, failed a swim.

That being said, I know guys who had to be pulled through the water by a triplet swim pair. I literally pushed guys over the finish line on runs. Even though they were horrible at certain timed events, they still had everything it took to graduate.

The last time your PST will matter to you in BUD/S is the first PST you pass at BUD/S. After that, it's obvious that your scores mean nothing at all.

[dive doc]

Nice post BS. Guys pay attention and train smart.

[bigv123]

BS speaks from direct experience so his words carry significant weight. However, there are two aspects that we're talking about and I think one of them is getting ignored. PST scores actually do TWO things. The first, and most obvious, is that there are minimum scores you need to hit at various stages of the training process to stay in the program. This is an objective metric and thus very easy to evaluate. The second issue is that these numbers taken collectively also constitute an indication of your general fitness. I think BS,and others that have been to BUD/S, would agree that for any given individual, the better your overall fitness is the higher your chances of completing the training.

Anyone who's been to BUD/S can tell you that there were plenty of guys who were PST monsters that didn't make it through. They'll also tell you of a few guys who struggled with the PST and the 4 mile run every time out...and still graduated. Here's the point. Once you're able to hit to "competitive" numbers for the PST, most of the battle is between your own two ears. The better your overall fitness, the better you'll perform and thus the less negative attention you'll attract from the instructors. Better performance = less beat downs/goon squads = better chance for success. Remember, hitting certain numbers on the PST isn't a "finish line" by any stretch of the imagination. Every single day you should wake up and say "What can i do today to make myself a better SEAL candidate/operator?" Training is never complete...

Sean V.

[bud/s sucks]

BS speaks from direct experience so his words carry significant weight. However, there are two aspects that we're talking about and I think one of them is getting ignored. PST scores actually do TWO things. The first, and most obvious, is that there are minimum scores you need to hit at various stages of the training process to stay in the program. This is an objective metric and thus very easy to evaluate. The second issue is that these numbers taken collectively also constitute an indication of your general fitness. I think BS,and others that have been to BUD/S, would agree that for any given individual, the better your overall fitness is the higher your chances of completing the training.

Anyone who's been to BUD/S can tell you that there were plenty of guys who were PST monsters that didn't make it through. They'll also tell you of a few guys who struggled with the PST and the 4 mile run every time out...and still graduated. Here's the point. Once you're able to hit to "competitive" numbers for the PST, most of the battle is between your own two ears. The better your overall fitness, the better you'll perform and thus the less negative attention you'll attract from the instructors. Better performance = less beat downs/goon squads = better chance for success. Remember, hitting certain numbers on the PST isn't a "finish line" by any stretch of the imagination. Every single day you should wake up and say "What can i do today to make myself a better SEAL candidate/operator?" Training is never complete...

Sean V.


Very true. It's nice never having to worry about passing a timed evolution. It's nice not getting gooned on a timed evolution (conditioning runs are a different story :( ) It's nice knowing a timed evolution won't be the determining factor in your graduation.

Something I stress is not focusing too much on PST scores, and I'll tell you why I do so. I met too many guys who were so focused on PST scores that they neglected to train the proper way. I wish I would have trained differently. For example, I can swim fast in fins, but I'm slow without them. I should have swam a lot more with fins. I could do a 1.5miler without trouble, but a 4 mile was pushing it. I should of kicked up the distance and speed a lot.

SO, while PST scores are great for showing general fitness, I would much rather see a slower run and swim for someone who has quads of steel that never tire and a respiratory system like a 6l Cummins turbo diesel.

Get what I'm sayin?