SEAL quest may be over :(

[TrueAce]

I finally received my medical records from when I had surgery as a kid. I was about 5 years old and had a TYMPANOPLASTY done on my ear. I believe that's disqualyfing for scuba so it doesn't look good. Christ I hope I can do something interesting in the military. I can't pass the ishihara so that takes me out of AF special ops but was hoping I could pass the FALANT which I still need to take.

[Courtenay]

Wow. I am so sorry. Is it something which you could see a Dr. to get medically cleared? Then maybe get a waiver? You have color-blindness too? Isn't that an issue for becoming a SEAL as well?

[king henry viii]

I finally received my medical records from when I had surgery as a kid. I was about 5 years old and had a TYMPANOPLASTY done on my ear. I believe that's disqualyfing for scuba so it doesn't look good. Christ I hope I can do something interesting in the military. I can't pass the ishihara so that takes me out of AF special ops but was hoping I could pass the FALANT which I still need to take.

why don't you try Army Ranger.

[snow85]

you know, why don't you head to an ent, or whatever type of doc did that surgery. if it was 10+ years ago, there's not telling how the healing process went, and who knows-- maybe they could waive it. do you have any hearing loss? were you injured and had to have that done as a result, or was that something that you were born with? how's your other ear?

[TrueAce]

It was something I was born with I believe. The tympanoplasty was for the removal of a cholesteatoma when I was young. At first I didn't know what procedure I had done for its removal until a couple days ago.

I have 100% hearing in both ears with both ear drums in tact when I checked with an ent. He didn't believe I would be able to scuba dive though, but didn't really give me a definite answer. Maybe it's normally a dq because the inside of my ear isn't the same and I won't be able to equalize. Who knows but I guess becoming a ranger may work if these issues don't.

Yes and the color vision issue is a problem as well. I have to be able to pass the falant since I can't pass the ishihara. Otherwise the vivid red/green test for the army will have to do.

[MeatHead08]

Have you ever been scuba diving before or even tried to swim to the bottom of a deep pool? If you are able to equalize without any pain then I am willing to bet you are fine.

[king henry viii]

Have you ever been scuba diving before or even tried to swim to the bottom of a deep pool? If you are able to equalize without any pain then I am willing to bet you are fine.

so if you equalize with a lot of pain... then what?

[dive doc]

Guys,

its not just about equalizing with or without pain. Its never that black and white. Ace i cant give you a simple answer on this one as i havnt examined you yet. Before you start despairing and if you really serious about this, i would urge you to find a local diving medical examiner and get the full spectrum of all audiology tests carried out. If possible bring your medical records and any other details you may have. If necessary he will then be able to contact a specialist ENT who may have a knowledge of diving medicine and be able to give you a frank answer.

The surgery occurred when you were 5. Ear surgery is a big red flag for diving, but it may not be an absolute disqualifying factor if you have not had any problems since. If you are serious go and get examined properly.

If you have any other questions, let me know.

Best of luck Ace.

DD

[borus96]

Guys,

its not just about equalizing with or without pain. Its never that black and white. Ace i cant give you a simple answer on this one as i havnt examined you yet. Before you start despairing and if you really serious about this, i would urge you to find a local diving medical examiner and get the full spectrum of all audiology tests carried out. If possible bring your medical records and any other details you may have. If necessary he will then be able to contact a specialist ENT who may have a knowledge of diving medicine and be able to give you a frank answer.

The surgery occurred when you were 5. Ear surgery is a big red flag for diving, but it may not be an absolute disqualifying factor if you have not had any problems since. If you are serious go and get examined properly.

If you have any other questions, let me know.

Best of luck Ace.

DD


True that Ace. Ear surgery is a perfect analogy to a mini sub getting rivet repairs rather than weld repairs. Your ears are very sensitive, which is why they are the only things that react to pressure change.

[unknownusn]

Since the topic is SEAL quest may be over, and this is a medical section of the forum, I guess it would seem a good idea to post my opinion. My SEAL quest may be over as well.. In High school i started J.R.O.T.C.. By my sophmore year, I had already made captain of the rifle team, and battallion commander. I took it all 4 years, including summer camp.

I am an excellent shot, a fish in the water, and I love to physically push myself. I trained for about 2 years to be SEAL before I joined the navy. I see myself and a good leader and motivator. After 10 months in the Navy, I made PO3. Top 10% of the exam with an MP on my EVAL. I over trained however, and sustained a knee injury.

All the docs, and corpsmen say its PFS. Physical therapy made it worse, (almost 3 months of it) xrays came back fine, but they never did an MRI. Every doc continues to say PFS. The pain is in the lower part of the knee cap, sometimes on the sides, and feels like its under it. Running, i could maybe get a mile and a half and it starts to hurt.

If I don't sit down then it gets to where I can't even walk. Stairs hurt, along with hills, squats, carrying weight sometimes, etc.. The command I am at called me a malingerer and badgered me forever. They have done some pretty ridiculous things that in the real navy would probably not fly.

Reason I say that is that most of my chain of command right now is marines. Or navy personnel trying to act like marines and getting lost somewhere in the middle not knowing leadership if it bit them in the ***. As a PO3 its not really my place to say that, but aren't your superiours supposed to help you in anyway possible? And not try to screw you every chance they got?

The navy side of my chain of command has treated me like absolute crap and I still love the navy, and have extreme pride. Either way, this injury may be what ends my naval career and my dream to be a SEAL. My orthopedic surgeon said he didnt want to do surgery when I first saw him because for PFS there is not much you can do and that there is a high chance of a failure of surgery and I would never run again and depending on how bad it was it would be difficult walking.

Once again, never had an MRI though. Anywho, my conflict is this : The surgeon already recommended ADMIN SEP because of my knee. I was LIMDU until they put me FFD so I could be SEP'ed. The FFD comes back this wednesday. Any advice? Input? Anyone experience the same thing? Running out of time, and options. Any help is greatly welcomed. Thanks All.

[oldswabbie]

I'm sorry. Life manages to throw us curve balls sometimes that we dont expect and we catch them between the eyes instead of with the glove.

As you know, In the Navy you get ALL kinds of people. Every Command is different. Sounds like you have a bunch of whiners and wussies. Unfortunately if they are above you it makes life difficult. Just keep working the medical options. The idiots cannot stop you from getting proper treatment for REAL issues.

As far as SEAL training.. just take it day by day and see how it goes. Dont get all depressed yet. You never what's around the next corner. Wish I could help you with the W&W (whiners & wussies), I'd tell them to shut it and stow it...


OldSwabbie

[unknownusn]

Depression is not an issue. Not being able to acheive my dream is. They have refused me surgery time and time again. And awaiting the papers to put me full duty to be sep'd doesnt help me on time. But yea, as far as life goes, its throwing me a curve ball wrapped in DET cord and C4 inside. But if medical still refuses, and I get sepped, the next best thing I suppose is either FBI or ATF... Not exactly what else there is that is "Elite" in the civillian world but i'll do my damndest to find it. Thanks for the advice. Hooyah.

[oldswabbie]

Depression is not an issue. Not being able to acheive my dream is. They have refused me surgery time and time again. And awaiting the papers to put me full duty to be sep'd doesnt help me on time. But yea, as far as life goes, its throwing me a curve ball wrapped in DET cord and C4 inside. But if medical still refuses, and I get sepped, the next best thing I suppose is either FBI or ATF... Not exactly what else there is that is "Elite" in the civillian world but i'll do my damndest to find it. Thanks for the advice. Hooyah.

I understand. There still may be options. If you need surgery and they are refusing.. something could be done. Depends... I wonder if Dive Doc could maybe chime in on this? Ill send him an email..I cant promise anything but Doc is an MD and also works with NSW quite a bit. He may also be able to give you some advice on what you should do next or WHO you should talk to next.


Jim

[unknownusn]

I'll keep refreshing the server for reply's. Thank you again for the help.

[oldswabbie]

I'll keep refreshing the server for reply's. Thank you again for the help.

You're welcome. I hope there's something that can be done, from what you're telling me....something dont sound right. If they are RR'ing (rail roading) you out without the surgery you need and pushing you off onto the VA thats not right either. Let's see what Dive Doc Says. Again, it may not change anything but who knows. If the situation is right, I've also been know to write a few letters and send some emails... doesnt hurt at that point.

That reminds me.. i need to check up on a boy ....

OldSwabbie

[unknownusn]

Yea. When I first came to this command I spoke to a retired master cheif Cully, and NSWC in VA. My recruiter knew him pretty well. After I ran into some issues with my dive package it had been about a month since contacting him and he called my CMC about me and my package. I got an *** chewing for 2 days by everyone in my chain of command for jumping chain of command and was going to receive a counseling chit due to it.

I spoke my part, and my divisional officer decided I had been at the command about 3 months and it wasn't my fault that that may have been a bit excessive. Either way, this chain here dislikes me for my knee issue anyway. Because the way I see it, if your injured, stand up for it and get help.

But because of all the younger actual malingerers here, they figure everyone is. Either way I more than appreciate the help, once again, but in the back of my head I guess i'm still kinda afraid for reprisal. Like what if you you were to send an e-mail or letter concerning me, then I get bombed for seeking further help when I already agreed to get out? It's not that I care, i'm here to do a job, not to make friends or be liked. I've needed a ... whats it called... a mentor..someone that has a good deal of knowledge and time in the navy, that will help me not screw me.. a sea daddy? is that it? And the fact My doc has already recommended seperation, and i've told my command I wanted to get out and agreed to it. so. But, I await your next reply.

[jumpingbum]

Yea. When I first came to this command I spoke to a retired Master Chief Cully, and NSWC in VA. My recruiter knew him pretty well. After I ran into some issues with my dive package it had been about a month since contacting him and he called my CMC about me and my package. I got an *** chewing for 2 days by everyone in my chain of command for jumping chain of command and was going to receive a counseling chit due to it.

I spoke my part, and my divisional officer decided I had been at the command about 3 months and it wasn't my fault that that may have been a bit excessive. Either way, this chain here dislikes me for my knee issue anyway. Because the way I see it, if your injured, stand up for it and get help.

But because of all the younger actual malingerers here, they figure everyone is. Either way I more than appreciate the help, once again, but in the back of my head I guess I'm still kinda afraid for reprisal. Like what if you you were to send an e-mail or letter concerning me, then I get bombed for seeking further help when I already agreed to get out? It's not that I care, I'm here to do a job, not to make friends or be liked. I've needed a ... whats it called... a mentor..someone that has a good deal of knowledge and time in the navy, that will help me not screw me.. a sea daddy? is that it? And the fact My doc has already recommended separation, and I've told my command I wanted to get out and agreed to it. so. But, I await your next reply.

Have you tried speaking with the Inspector General on Base about the medical "care" or lack thereof that you are receiving? Sounds like they're making it worse. The IG is NOT in your chain of command and, well, s/he can move mountains. The other thing you can do is to write your Congressman/woman... Congressionals always get people hopping; what do you think, Swabbie?

[oldswabbie]

The only thing I worry about is that you will be taken care of. You have a service connected issue and it needs to be addressed whether they like it or not. Sounds like you got beat down and dont want to get beat down anymore. Understand, there are people on here that know people. We dont want to cause you more problems but want to help you with your problems.


Lets see what Dive Doc says about your condition and then we may know more of what to say to help you.

Oldswabbie

[pittguy]

I don't know anything about the workings of the military, but from a medical point, and I'm not trying dispute their diagnosis or make a diagnosis, but if you can, you might benefit from seeking civilian medical treatment. Perhaps you could consider something like prolotherapy. I've seen quite a few olympic weightlifters with injuries that were expected to require surgery, and in some cases, intervention with something like physical therapy and prolotherapy combined actually eliminated the need for surgery.

Just something to consider as an alternative to surgery. Good luck!

[oldswabbie]

Thats always a possibility too. My daughter had some terrible complications with the delivery of the grandbaby a month ago.. she ended up having a stroke at 20 years old because the Army hospital where she is was so inept they let her BP go into the stratosphere. She ended up at a Civilian hospital - the Army paying the bills to Medevac her 600 miles (to Anchorage). So yes, seeing a civilian physician is a good idea for a 2nd opinion and in some cases its lifesaving!

I'm just worried about him being covered after he gets out for this problem. I made sure my problems were documented before I got out. Thank goodness, I have the VA to fall back on plus I get a small pension. If its service connected then you should be compensated for it and it should be taken care of.

I've got a PM into Dive Doc, i'm sure as soon as he has time he will take a look at this and give an opinion.. just be patient.. get it.. patient..he a doctor... Nevermind.. it was funny in my head :)

OK.... IN the meantime. I need you to do this for me. I will NOT contact anyone without your consent.. I just need to do some background investigation. PM (private message) me and tell me where you are stationed, what command you are attached to.. and what medical facility is/has been treating you. Dive Doc will also need to know that possible. Again ~ NONE of us will make any contact whatsoever with anyone at your command or base. We dont want to screw anything up for you or make life difficult but this will help us figure out what we need to know.

OldSwabbie

[unknownusn]

Well, I more than appreciate all of the help, honestly. You guys helping me here online is more help than i've gotten from the navy in the year and a half i've been at this command. I've had some pretty crazy issues. I've had request mast chits denied, been hazed, humiliated, etc... its pretty crazy but I'll give more detail in the PM. Thanks so much again.

[commbubba]

Okay, first off...don't let anyone cut on you, if you can avoid it. And keep taking the ***-chewings and fighting for what you want, because you're the only one that will take care of you.

Now, my advice that I'm going to give is so simple it pissed me off. I got out of the Marines with 10% disability with degenerative disk (spine) and shin splints. I was not happy to lose my health and well-being and becoming a civilian again. It's taken me a LONG time to finally figure out how to heal myself and I'm more than a little bitter about losing so much time, suffering from so much pain and depression, and getting crapped on.

Purchase a book named "Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue. This is the Egoscue method. A quick explanation of it is that it addresses what is causing the pain, instead of cutting out the cartilage, meniscus, ligaments, discs, etc. It's all about balancing the body structurally and, in doing so, the pain goes away.

Junior Seau, John Lynch, and Brian Urlacher (NFL All Stars) have used this method with great results. Put it this way...I hadn't been able to run since May 1 because of tendinopathy in my ankles (as in take one step to run and I'm cussing) and got the program last Wednesday. I did the exercises/stretches for the body parts afflicted right away and on Friday I ran without pain. I took a few days off to rest the tendons and ran tonight after doing the exercises (feeling the pain and tightness come back some), with little to no pain. I will be using it on my back ASAP, but the ankles are what sold me on it.

Hope this helps and hope you get to BUD/S.

[unknownusn]

swabbie, did you get my info.?

[oldswabbie]

Yes I did, I will not do any contact...doing some recon. Just waiting on Dive Doc to take a look when he gets a chance.

OldSwabbie

[unknownusn]

ok thanks. after dive docs input we can talk about contacting etc..

[dive doc]

Sorry for delay. Currently looking.

DD

[unknownusn]

Its ok, And thank you. . . I'm running out of time. I do my worldwide deployment assesment screening from LIMDU to full duty tomm. Thats the last step in my way until seperation. Either way. I'll keep checking for reply's

[oldswabbie]

Its ok, And thank you. . . I'm running out of time. I do my worldwide deployment assesment screening from LIMDU to full duty tomm. Thats the last step in my way until seperation. Either way. I'll keep checking for reply's


Ok ~ they have all this in your medical records right? Good. Its may be too late to stop separation.. not sure. No matter what, you know all of the Navy isnt like that and all guys arent out to be jerks. If you do separate I can help you with the VA process too in getting that started. You need that surgery and it will probably present a 10% disability when they are done... not sure but you can ask. Make sure you continue to touch base with us so we can help you where we can.

OldSwabbie

[dive doc]

Unknown i appreciate your urgency. My apologies. Ive been trying to find somebody that might be able to give you some insight/help or point you in the right direction on this one. The bottom line im getting back is that you are being jerked around.

Aside from the medical stuff, lets see if we cant help you or at least give you some direction. Unfortunately im not in the Navy, so you probably know the chain of command issues better than i do.

First up. If you can, push for an MRI, no better soft tissue imaging. Second, can you get a second surgical opinion on the knee? That first opinion is beginning to sound a little suspect to me.

Third, whats your email? I want to send you something, that may give you some details about the medical separation procedure. It might just give you some info/ammunition and stop you being screwed anymore.

I wish i had strings to pull here for you. Im feeling for you here bro.

DD

[oldswabbie]

Thank you Dive Doc, from the sounds of it, I got the feeling he was too but needed your expert input. Hopefully he can do something before they really screw him over worse.


OldSwabbie

[dive doc]

Thank you Dive Doc, from the sounds of it, I got the feeling he was too but needed your expert input. Hopefully he can do something before they really screw him over worse.


OldSwabbie

Swab,

do you have an email i can send it to?

PM it to me and i will send this to you as well. You can take a look at it and may be able to give him more insight as well re chain of command and medical issues. Lets see if we cant help him get sorted and stop him getting jerked about anymore.

[oldswabbie]

You can send it to conexxions3@aol.com. afterward we can talk with him and see what he wants to do and what we can possibly do to help him... which I'm hoping we can do something.... maybe bring some pressure to bear somehow.

OldSwabbie

[jdoleac]

I'm just reading this as an observer, but with a smile knowing that people like swabbie and dd will go out of there way to help someone. Not a lot of that going on anymore. Best of luck to you both unknown and true ace.

[oldswabbie]

I'm just reading this as an observer, but with a smile knowing that people like swabbie and dd will go out of there way to help someone. Not a lot of that going on anymore. Best of luck to you both unknown and true ace.

Thanks Jdoleac. Some think this is just a place to come and flap jaws or rattle teeth. In many ways I feel I have found a place to give back and to "serve" (if you will) again. My days in the Navy were very good days. I look back on them fondly and with good memories (most of them). If I can help someone who is NOT having such a good time I am sure going to try. After hearing our friends explanation when he first got on, I sniffed that somthing was not right. Dive Doc kinda confirmed it along with the people he talked to also. Now, armed with this maybe there is something we can do? We dont know. We need to talk to him first and see what he will allow us to do. Maybe we can help ~ maybe its too late. But we are willing to try.... Like I said, I'm on here for more than to just jak. I tell people I'm a mentor to you young guys and I do my best to fulfill that role as best a possible. Do I fail? YUP.. but I get back up and keep going...

OldSwabbie

[oldswabbie]

unknownusn - get with me when you sign back on. Dive Doc and I have been talking this over. Need to see what you would like to do with this... do you want us to fight?

Now, this is where a forum is a GOOD thing. I can try some things I know to do but may have limited sucess. However, there may be others on this forum that may still have some "pull" somewhere that might be able to help this young man from getting railroaded....which is definately seems is happening to him.

OldSwabbie

[unknownusn]

Well, if you think i'm getting screwed with the medical side, you would probably **** your pants if you heard the other side of what has happened. lol. Anywho. My main concern as of today is this. I want SEAL and the teams more than any amount of money more than any house, prize, position, job, anything. It is my Goal in life, so I will keep trying and trying until the day I get word that I 100 % no matter what cannot anymore.

I turned in my medical assesment screening today to PSD. The ball is rolling to get seperated pretty fast, but as far as the navy goes and surgery, If I had more insight on getting surgery it would help a lot. From what my command has said so far ( bare in mind I havent went to TAPs yet) I cannot be "Medically" seperated or get disability from the navy it has to be ADMIN sep. under medical conditions. Which is no disability.

However, what I would want more than anything really is to find out what I could do to get the CODE at the bottom of my DD214 put to where I could re-enlist. Even if the VA refused surgery hell, if it meant giving me a chance at the Teams again, I would go into debt and get the surgery as a civillian. But either way, I know that PSD are the ones that cover the DD214 Codes for re-enlistment but what are the procedures? Is there any way to persuade them to give me a code to re-enlist? Or is it computer automated.

I honestly have gotten more help from you guys on this forum than I have gotten my two years in the navy. With the exception of MA "A" School. So if there is a way either of you could find out, A : About surgery when I get seperated, and B : About that code for the DD214 it would help tremendiously.

As far as trying to get an MRI and a second opionion, i'm pretty afraid of reprisald right now, I'm FFD right now with a Light duty chit to compensate for coming off LIMDU to be seperated, but if I start wanting an MRI, or anything like that, my chain of command is going to blow me right out of the water. But anywho, I'm leaving the office now, but i'll check for more replies tonight from my personal computer. Swab you have all my personal info if anything comes up. Once again thank both of you so much, its more than appreciated.

[oldswabbie]

Well, if you think i'm getting screwed with the medical side, you would probably **** your pants if you heard the other side of what has happened. lol. Anywho. My main concern as of today is this. I want SEAL and the teams more than any amount of money more than any house, prize, position, job, anything. It is my Goal in life, so I will keep trying and trying until the day I get word that I 100 % no matter what cannot anymore.

I turned in my medical assesment screening today to PSD. The ball is rolling to get seperated pretty fast, but as far as the navy goes and surgery, If I had more insight on getting surgery it would help a lot. From what my command has said so far ( bare in mind I havent went to TAPs yet) I cannot be "Medically" seperated or get disability from the navy it has to be ADMIN sep. under medical conditions. Which is no disability.

However, what I would want more than anything really is to find out what I could do to get the CODE at the bottom of my DD214 put to where I could re-enlist. Even if the VA refused surgery hell, if it meant giving me a chance at the Teams again, I would go into debt and get the surgery as a civillian. But either way, I know that PSD are the ones that cover the DD214 Codes for re-enlistment but what are the procedures? Is there any way to persuade them to give me a code to re-enlist? Or is it computer automated.

I honestly have gotten more help from you guys on this forum than I have gotten my two years in the navy. With the exception of MA "A" School. So if there is a way either of you could find out, A : About surgery when I get seperated, and B : About that code for the DD214 it would help tremendiously.

As far as trying to get an MRI and a second opionion, i'm pretty afraid of reprisald right now, I'm FFD right now with a Light duty chit to compensate for coming off LIMDU to be seperated, but if I start wanting an MRI, or anything like that, my chain of command is going to blow me right out of the water. But anywho, I'm leaving the office now, but i'll check for more replies tonight from my personal computer. Swab you have all my personal info if anything comes up. Once again thank both of you so much, its more than appreciated.

Wait.. why is it ADMIN under Medical with no Disability? If its service connected then they cant refuse it. Now its really stinking. I wish I knew more about this part of the separation process but I dont. If you go out like this ~ I dont believe there is ANY coming back ..especially for NSW or anything. I dont even think any other service would take you... depends on the separation code they give you. I'm telling you.. the shaft is getting shoved further up your butt... I dont know how to stop it...

Here are the Codes for Navy/Marines/CG

RE-1- Eligible for reenlistment.
RE-1A- Eligible for reenlistment.
RE-2- Ineligible for reenlistment. Recommended for renlistment but ineligible because of status: Fleet Reservist Retired (except for transfer to TDRL), Commissioned Officer. Warrant 0fficer, Midshipman, Cadet.
RE-3A- Failure to meet area aptitude prerequisites. Fully qunlified for enlistment, provided mental criteria of table 2-1 are met. Alien.
RE-3B- Restricted assignment. Parenthood. Pregnancy.
RE-3C- Reenlistment authorized by CMC only. Ineligible for enlistment, unless waiver is granted. Conscientious Objector.
RE-3D- Failure to meet disciplinary standards. Ineligible for enlistment, unless waiver is granted. Demonstrated dependency or hardship not meetinq criteria specified in Bupersman article C-10308.
RE-3E- Failure to meet education prerequisites. Fully qualified for enlistment provided education criteria is met. Erroneous induction.
RE-3F- Erroneous enlistment.
RE-3G- Condition (not physical disability) interfering with performance of duty.
RE-3H- Hardship
RE-3K- Disenrolled Irom Naval Academy, not considered qualified for enlisted status.
RE-3M- Marriage.
RE-3N- Importance to national health, safety or interest.
RE-3P- Physical disability (includes discharge and transfer to TDRL). Obesity. Motion sickness. Disqualified for officer candidate training.
RE-3R- Rank reappointment restriction. Ineligible for reenlist unless waivered
RE-3R- Professional growth criteria. Ineligible for reenlist unless waivered
RE-3S- Sole surviving son.
RE-3T- Overweight
RE-3U- Minority
RE-4- Not recommended for reenlistment

OldSwabbie

[unknownusn]

they said that if I did not get surgery then I could not be medically seperated. I found out last night that, no matter what RE code I get, I can always attempt to get a different code when I get out. The worst codes obviously are RE-4 and some of the RE-3's that are ineligable for re-enlistment but my CCC said that you would only get one of those codes if you get dishonorably discharged. Either way, your right the shaft is begginning to get bigger as it goes in. I'll fight after I get out to get waived after surgery to get a different code to come back in if I can.

[oldswabbie]

they said that if I did not get surgery then I could not be medically seperated. I found out last night that, no matter what RE code I get, I can always attempt to get a different code when I get out. The worst codes obviously are RE-4 and some of the RE-3's that are ineligable for re-enlistment but my CCC said that you would only get one of those codes if you get dishonorably discharged. Either way, your right the shaft is begginning to get bigger as it goes in. I'll fight after I get out to get waived after surgery to get a different code to come back in if I can.

I am thinking you need a lawyer son.. a Navy lawyer to make sure things are ok. Not sure if the Jag's office will help you but its a shot...well, thinking about it..they represent the Navy and not necessarily YOU, so you may want to talk to counsel outside of the Navy.. before you get out. Once you get out you may not be able to do anything at all.


OldSwabbie

[cjp114]

I’m a newbie here. I’m a runner (among other things) and a PA, so I can offer some personal and professional insight into knee pain.

First off, you need a definitive diagnosis. Although the symptoms sound like PFS, an MRI will help rule out meniscus tears, other soft tissue injury or arthritis. Imaging will also help distinguish PFS from chondromalacia, which is actual fraying and damage to the underlying patellar cartilage. A frustrated orthopedic surgeon would likely order an MRI to confirm his diagnosis and treatment plan after a few months of unsuccessful PT. I would put aside your feelings regarding what people will think of you and push for the scan. It looks like you don't have a lot to lose at this point. It would be terrible to be discharged and later find out as a civilian that you had something additional or different going on.

You mentioned surgery. No decent orthopod will do surgery without an MRI and a huge variety of failed treatment attempts. But sadly, not every problem can be fixed with an operation. If your diagnosis is correct, this is one instance where surgery is of little to no value. Beware of any orthopod who wants to do surgery for generalized knee pain. Surgery of any kind involves risks, and here the risks outweigh any benefits.

I have no idea how the Navy docs are treating your knee, but I’ll throw in my two cents worth of experience here. I’ll preface this by saying that there is no consensus regarding cause and treatment, but overall sports med people see certain treatment plans work more than others. #1 REST!!! As in quit running!! Non-impact activity and even that in moderation. Swimming and elliptical for cardio are OK, as is moderate strength training. Any exercise that is done with a bent knee is only going to strain the joint, so be careful. This syndrome is an overuse and overload condition, which means in order to get better you must rest. Truth is, this will set your SEAL training back a few months. If you have any hope of bud/s, you’ve must get better. I know that’s hard to take as a motivated athlete, but you’ve gotta fix this before you volunteer to run 4 miles in the sand at dawn. #2 You’ll need to spend time working on correcting the physical imbalance that’s causing your pain. You didn’t mention what the PT’s diagnosis was, but there are several common problems:

+ Imbalance in strength of quad muscles, with weakness allowing patella to track too far laterally
+ tight iliotibial bands
+ tight hamstring muscles
+ weak hip flexor muscles
+ poor running mechanics

Look at your shoes. Do you pronate when running? People with excessive foot pronation can increase the posterior force on the knee, leading to the PFS cascade. Make sure you have great shoes. Are you flat footed? Sometimes custom arch supports and/or orthotics help.

When you begin feeling better and think about increasing your training, seek out a good sports med PT or trainer. They can instruct you in taping the knee in order to promote medial glide. Also find a good running store with knowledgeable sales people to help you pick the right shoes for your running style. If you get orthotics, you may need new shoes for a comfortable fit.

Managing knee pain is a challenge. It often takes 6 weeks of the right combination of treatments to start seeing results. I can imagine your frustration at being labeled a malingerer when you’re walking, sitting, and sleeping in pain. It seems like the Navy guys here are your best source of info for working the admin side. If you want to chat more about the physical side of this, I’d be happy to help in any way I can.

[unknownusn]

My only concern as of now, is that if they would even allow me to get an MRI. Or if they would see that I am getting seperated and find it redundant that I would need one in the first place. Either way, I may attempt it regardless of the hassle and trouble it will cause me. Better than spending a lot of money as a civillian to get one done. Not sure of the cost, but i'm sure its plentiful. Thanks again for the insight and help. As far as the Lawyer, i'm not sure what would be easier. Prolonging everything and staying here at this command while everything is one sided against me, or get out, get the surgery myself,(or more physical therapy) try to get it fixed, and get my RE code changed IF the one I get doesnt allow me to re join, then re join and try for the teams again. Many decisions to be made.

[sealteams135]

Unknown,

I've read all your posts, pretty interesting/sucky situation you're in. I'm in a similar situation, minus all the bullcrap. One thing I haven't spoken of on this site yet, is that I'm getting medically retired, put on TDRL, for a different condition that was found. BUT, as far as knee problems, I tore my left meniscus doing SEALfit WOD, probably used too much weight on a rucksack run. haha. I've had MRI's, X-RAY's, Physical Therapy, all that good stuff.

I'm wondering what command you're with, are you in VA? You can send me a pm if you want, maybe I can help you out in someway.

[unknownusn]

Any Updates?

[unknownusn]

Wow, what happened to this thread?

[oldswabbie]

Wow, what happened to this thread?

I havent forgotten you.. working on something.. taking some time

Oldswabbie

[unknownusn]

Ah, I see. My Apologies.