Training for Extreme Endurance

[rsctt83]

I do a lot of extreme endurance type events and have a few suggestions on how I try and train for mental toughness. I try and use simulation of same type conditions that I will be facing {or as close as possible}. One of the things I do is climb and I am presently training for an 8,000 meter ascent. At that altitude after weeks of climbing your body will be totally hammered and you will not be at your peak performance on summit day {far from it} ..... it's difficult to sleep at that altitude, consume enough calories and your body will not heal well above 17,000 feet. I know that I am going to feel like this and what I do is to try and simulate/train for the physical and mental demands that I will be placing on myself on summit day. The way that I do this is on the occassion when I am really sick {flu like symptoms} I will go out and do a very, very long run through the night.

My wife thinks I am totally insane and she is no doubt correct about this. But this type of simulated training is the only thing I know or can think of that even comes close to mimic how crappy you feel on summit day up high and the demands that will be placed upon you mentally. What this does is train your body to perform when you are feeling really, really badly and most importantly trains your mind to be strong. When you are really sick pretty much every cell in your body wants to shut it down and crawl in the sack, but I try and force myself to keep putting one foot in front of the other and complete the run. The thing about high altitude climbing on summit day is that you cannot shut it down else you become a frozen feature on the mountain. I have found that this type of extreme simulation training has really helped me become mentally stronger and to learn to completely ignore all of those little beasty voices inside my head that keep coming up with a million reasons why I should shut it down.

I also participate in extreme endurance type events that require one - many nights with little or no sleep. The hardest for me is around 2:00 AM the second night. Once the sun comes up it sort of rejuvinates you. Your abilities/smarts/jugement really start to suffer. A trick I use is to do simple math problems, I figure if I can't figure out what 6 x 7 is I better be very, very careful passing a fixed anchor on climb.

I think every once in a while trying to simulate what your about to face is a smart approach and it will help train you mentally to be very tough and to keep getting after it, I think often people train hard phyiscally but have no clue what they are about to face mentally. There is a quote I love "in extreme events often the toughest distance to overcome is between your ears".

What I have found is that it is pretty amazing what you can accomplish if you are mentally tough and just keep putting one foot in front of the other, to me that mental part is the deal maker or breaker in this type of stuff.

[king henry viii]

I do a lot of extreme endurance type events and have a few suggestions on how I try and train for mental toughness. I try and use simulatation of same conditions I will be facing {or as close as possible}. On of the things I do is climb and I am presently training for an 8,000 meter ascent. At that altitude after weeks of climbing your body will be totally hammered and you will not be at at less than your peak on summit day ..... it's difficult to sleep at that altitude, consume enough calories and your body will not heal well above 17,000 feet. I know that I am going to feel like this and what I do is to try and simulate/train for the physical and mental demands I will be placing on myself. The way that I do this is when I am really sick {flu like symptoms} I will go out and do a very, very long run during the night.

rightMy wife thinks I am totally insane and she is no doubt correct about this. But this type of simulated training is the only thing that even comes close to mimic how crappy you feel on summit day up high. What this does is train your body to perform when you are feeling really, really badly and most importantly trains your mind to be strong. Pretty much every cell in your body wants to shut it down and crawl in the sack, but I try and force myself to keep putting one foot in front of the other and complete the run. The thing about high altitude climbing on summit day is that you cannot shut it down else you become a frozen feature on the mountain. I have found that this type of extreme simualtion training has really helped me become mentally strong and to learn to completely ignore all of those little voices inside my head that keep coming up with a million reasons why I should shut it down.

I have also done extreme endurance events that afford one no opporunity to sleep. The hardest for me is around 2:00 AM the second night. Once the sun comes up it sort of rejuvinates you. Your abilities/smarts/jugement really start to suffer. A trick is to do simple math problems, I figure if I can't figure out what 6 x 7 is I better be very, very careful passing a fixed anchor on climb.

I think every once in a while trying to simulate what your about to face is a smart approach and it will help train you mentally to be very tough and to keep getting after it, I think often people train hard phyiscally but have no clue what they are about to face mentally to stay the course and finish. There is a quote I love "in extreme events often the toughest distance to overcome is between your ears".

What I have found is that it is pretty amazing what you can accomplish if you are mentally fit, to me that mental part is the deal maker or breaker in this type of stuff.

how dare you leave us in suspense by not telling us which 8,000+ meter peak you are planning on climbing. So please tell us.

[rsctt83]

I am not certain at this moment, if I had to say right now it would be Cho Oyu, although Shisanpagma is still a possibility and there is an outside chance of an attempt on the north ridge of Everest {Tibet side} but Everest is distinctly more difficult in the fall {weather}. I am locked into doing expedition style climb in the fall of 2008 as opposed to spring when most people give Everest a go. The ministry of climbing in Tibet and Nepal have lowered permit fees to attract expedition into area during the fall so fall is starting to get more popular.

[mitty140]

Scott,

This is one of my favorite quotes:

"Your body and physical conditioning get you to the start line, it's your heart and mind that gets you to the finish."

Good luck on your goals!

[rsctt83]

Mitty;

That quote is so true .......... most of the stuff I do or have done requires no world class/elite level of athletic ability but world class amounts of mental toughness.

One of my favorites is "some of the greatest acheivements have been done by people too dumb to know they were impossible"

Scott

[scskowron]

That quote is so true .......... most of the stuff I do or have done requires no world class/elite level of athletic ability but world class amounts of mental toughness.

Scott


This is really neat. Out of curiosity, what do you do? Are you in the teams?
Even though Crossfit really hates endurance activities like marathons and mountain climbs and such, I really respect it because of what you just said.
I want to be able to maximize my overall fitness like Crossfit does and at the same time maximize by mental fitness like endurance. The problem is that the mental fitness exercises aren't conducive to elite fitness all the time, so some sacrifices must be made.
Thanks for giving us your advice.

[rsctt83]

I do a lot of extreme endurance runs. This past summer I paced a friend in a race called Badwater, which starts in the middle of Death Valley and goes 135 miles to the Whitney Portal {trailhead}. We than went to summit and returned to Badwater which is called the Badwater Double. The total distance is 297 miles. I am an avid mountain climber and I train for climbs by running mountains like Whitney.

I have found that mental strength is something that I have been able to train for and improve. The equation that makes up mental strength has many variables such as confidence, ability, desire, passion, and drive to name a few. I think if you train hard and are in great physical condition for the event at hand that will improve your confidence and ability. By way of example, if you are going to run a 1/2 marathon and have trained at distance of full marathon at your desired pace per mile, you would have really improved your ability and confidence. The desire portion has to come from within, basically how badly do you really want to complete the marathon. If you do not have strong desire to complete the marathon than chances are you will shut it down if and when things start getting tough. I personally feel as though I can train the drive portion, which I think is mental toughness. I use techniques that are probably going to sound crazy but they work for me. Sometimes when I feel sick I will go out and run all night, this simulates summit day on a high altitude climb because invariably you feel like crap up high. All your body wants to do is shut it down and spin around and go down but you have to stay on task and keep putting one foot in front of the other {assuming that conditions are OK and it's just the little voices in your head saying why are you doing this ...} By running all night when I feel sick {and all my body wants to do is hit the sack} I am training myself to keep getting after it even though all I want to do is shut it down. Drills like this have helped me to ignore all those pesty little voices bewteen my ears giving me a million different reasons to spin around and shut it down. I know out there in 125 degree heat in Death Valley the little voices were trying to be very convincing with all the reasons to stop but perhaps I am too dumb to understand what they were saying.

Hope this helps

Soon we are going to have an extreme endurance/mental strength forum up and running where we can exchange ideas and information.

[scskowron]

Wow that's awesome. In seriousness I've always wanted to run all night, but it's pretty difficult to do with the schedule of a college student. Do these runs ever get you sick with a cold or a flu? I'm afraid that would happen to me.

[rsctt83]

The times that I have done this {only a few} I have actually been sick with bad cold. The reason I use this opportunity is because it is the only way I know of replicating what I will be experiencing up high, which is pretty much feeling horrible {hard to eat, sleep at altitude and your usually really hammered from all days on mountain}. If you can go out and do a really long run when you feel really, really badly and your body just wants to shut it down and your mind is giving you a million reasons why this does not make any sense than you gain confidence that you have the mental toughness to push through serious discomfort. Extreme endurance stuff requires that you spend considerable time beyond your comfort zone {way beyond} you have to develop the ability to perform at a high level when you are not at your peak and you are feeling lousy.

I guess all this really boils down to is something akin to the type of training runners do using a heart rate monitor and training in different HR zones, only for mental strength/toughness you sometimes need to push yourself well beyond the comfort zone {being careful to rest and recover properly}.

I am by no means an expert in this and these are just my views of what works for me. There are a ton of guys way more knowledgable than I on these forums and once we get going with endurance forum we can benefit from all their experinces as well.

Best of luck

[t t]

Rsctt
I haven't figured out how to only quote one part of a message yet -- but this is from your post.

"I think every once in a while trying to simulate what your about to face is a smart approach and it will help train you mentally to be very tough and to keep getting after it,...."

Other than putting one foot in front of the other, and making a concious effort to remind yourself to breath.....what do you do if you don't know what you are about to face?

Serious question.

t t

[jltiger143]

I know what I try to do, and I know what is recommended for tadpoles going through BUD/S: Don't anticipate what is coming next. Just focus on getting yourself through that one evolution, one pull-up, one mile, one minute, one - whatever it is that you are doing. If you can stay in the moment, and ignore the voices telling you to shut it down, then you will develop that no-quit attitude.

Easier said that done. Especially when you are sick, cold, tired, or just plain fed up.

The mind is the first thing to go, and when it does, the body quickly follows.

[t t]

jltiger143
I appreciate your input...some days/weeks are harder than others -- sometimes it gets extremely overwhelming. I guess I have to learn also to let some things go...rest...and refocus. Like you said "easier said than done."

TX

t t

[rsctt83]

jltiger

Your advice is rock solid and judging by what you have said you have figured much of this out ........

The key to success with extreme stuff is as you said staying in the moment, this sounds contrite but really it's as simple as putting one foot in front of the other. The voices can be very strong and they put up very compelling argument/reasons to shut it down. I hear them everyday right now as I am in the last week of brutal/beatdown training. The intense training that I am doing is physically very difficult but even more difficult from mental aspect. It gets very tough every morning to do it all again.

I use baby steps, just step out of car and take first stride, one stride at a time, swim one lap at a time and one more pull up. What sucks is that at the end of the day I am like phew made it .... than bam it's morning again.

I wrote a lot of training ideas/tips on extreme training a few months ago, for those interested it's worth a look.

[jltiger143]

I hear you Scott...my thoughts are with you as you prepare for this challenge.

From my experience and from all of the readings I have done, there are three things that really help with achieving success of any kind:

The first is to have a goal in mind. A crystal clear, easily articulated goal like Become a Navy SEAL, run a marathon, have a visible six pack, whatever you like.

The second is to have a plan, with milestones. This is key...you have to have a plan and work that plan, regardless of the voices telling you to quit, the naysayers (people who tell you that your dream is impossible or ridiculous). You have got to stick with the plan.

The third is to have a no quit attitude. I recently read the book No Excuse Leadership: Lessons from the U.S. Army Elite Rangers. Lots of good stuff in that book, but one thing stuck with me in particular. To paraphrase: In any situation you can do two things, you can choose to do it, or you can make excuses why you can't/won't do it.

If you have a goal and a plan, it really comes down to making choices that move you towards the goal, or away from it. And those choices happen every minute of every day.

Stay in the moment, don't anticipate, and most importantly make good choices that move you towards your goal, not away from it.

For example, my current goal is to run a half-marathon in September. My current plan is to complete the Warning Order. I'm on the last week. Last night, I had a scheduled 5k race with my gym. I ran 3 miles prior to the 5k, then went out and did the race. I have four more 6 mile runs to finish the WO, then it's on to a new plan to hit that goal in September.

With the Ranger lesson in mind, I paid close attention last night to others on the course. I watched one woman make excuse after excuse why she couldn't run and had to keep walking. First it was asthma, then it was a cramp...whatever. Others didn't even start the race, and had lots of excuses there too.

If you get a chance, read "Not Dead, Can't Quit". The link is on the main page of the site. Great read.

Good luck with your dreams - remember you only have one life to live, so make it count!

[rsctt83]

tiger

I love reading your stuff, you are dialed in perfectly and are totally headed down the right path. It has taken me years to learn this stuff through trial and error {lots and lots of errors}.

To those interested in extreme endurance training here are a few things. One of the things that keeps me going during intense training is the really cool feeling of sticking to it and getting finished, the opposite would be how much it sucks to fold tent early and shut it down. If you succomb to the voices once it becomes addictive and you will be tempting to listen to them all the time. Ignore the voices, it's not easy but can be done. I use music to help, I use radio to run and Swimp3 {waterproof MP3 player swim}. Is this sign of mental weakness, perhaps but my runs are long and swims are long and I figure whatever works, plus it's way to relieve boredom.

I am training for 310 mile run through desert and mountains that will begin in two weeks. A few nights ago friends asked me how do you train for something like this. The answer is just like anyone else out there would train for an event, run, PT/CF, swim it's just that I do that stuff for a whole lot longer {extended duration}. The key to something like this is years of prior training/experience and what I use is for four weeks, I take myself deep into physical state of physical fatigue and than pound it out everyday, training myself to perform a high levels while very fatigued. This type of training is something I have used in the past and works well for me. This is my last week {week 4 of 4} after which I will start tapering down and letting my body/mind recover in preparation for start.

The training consists of daily base mileage of 12 miles per day followed immediately by 4,000 yard freestyle swim {this year I scaled back on mileage and I am trying cross training using long swims}. This occurs five days per week, with a long mountain run on weekend. Most nights I hit gym for PT/CF work, using lightweight with high reps. I spend a lot of time doing OHS, back squats, thrusters, step up bench, jump up bench, etc.. trying to build up legs for endurance.

Anyway, if anyone has any questions about extreme training feel free to ask away

[anhines56]

It seems to me that preparation for an extreme event and preparation for BUD/S share one very important characteristic with the preparation the teams must do: you can't really rehearse the whole deal in advance, especially with all the variations of what might happen, depending on this or that occurring along the way.

The alternative is to prepare a solid physical base, practice the critical skills, have markers/checkpoints in advance where decisions must be made, and know the criteria for the choices available at each.

The remain rigidly flexible. :-)