ACL Surgery, no go for BUD/s?

[pt85]

Forgive me if this has been covered but a few years back as a result of a bad tackle I tore my ACL and later had reconstructive surgery to repair it, too many squats not enough hamstring…. I was just wondering if that is an automatic DQ from BUD/s. Snow, I tried to access those websites that you gave in a previous thread but for some reason I couldn’t. As far as my range of motion and strength is concerned, after a long stint of rehab I came back to play the following year and I have since regained all of my strength...no longer do I do those max rep sets and I advise those who do to make sure everything remains balanced. I’m just worried that this injury may keep me out of BUD/s, a term like “reconstructive surgery” probably does not fly real well with the process. It has already kept me out of college ball, if it keeps me out of BUD/s I don’t know what I will do.
Thank you in advance,
Paul

[kenny555]

my brother has a buddy with him in Great Lakes right now who ruptured his ACL also, so its deffinately possible to get in without too many problems.

[snow85]

'without too many problems?'

the ACL waiver process can be a REAL pain in the butt. it's basically your word against what someone else thinks. you've to prove 100% that you won't become a liability should that thing tear again, and you never, ever know if, when, or how that can happen. additionally, you're constantly re-evaluated, so you have that to worry about/deal with.


paul--

mmm... i'm not sure which websites i sent you kids to, but i'll ... see if i can figure them out, or else i'll just give you new ones.

'reconstructive surgery'... haha. listen--


first of all what type of surgical procedure did you have? that makes a difference.

whatever you're doing for your workout, you're going to need to keep doing it. when you're at BUD/S and (haha) you have down time, you're going to still need to do your quad sets, straight leg raises, single leg squats, and vmo exercises. you WILL lose that vmo if you don't work on it. you're going to have to take extra precautions to guard against tendinitis and tendonosis (look them up), and if you do develop those (and/or chondromalacia), you WILL have to rest if you want to return to full activity as quickly as possible. when you run longer distances, make sure you're picking up your surgery knee-- don't let it get tired and drag through your stride. there are times when this will definitely require a conscious effort.

there will NEVER be another day when a 'normal' workout routine will be enough to keep your leg strong, balanced, and in-line with the other one. you will always have to go above and beyond what 'normal' people do. that's just the (unfortunate) nature of the injury for those who wish to remain athletic.

keep track of everything you're doing now. if you do squats while you're brushing your teeth, write that down. did your docs/PTs ever give you a maintenance program?

the most important thing you can do is to keep your quads/hams STRONG and balanced. should something ever happen to you in a combat zone, that's how you're gonna get home. they can hold your bones in place if your ligaments go. in a situation like that, if your ACL blows out again, expect the worst, the stress can cause the PCL to go with it. you'll know it doesn't feel 'right', but you'll also be able to move your butt to a more advantageous location. remember that.

i really do not know why that kept you out of college ball, except for timing. it should not have. however, i'm pretty sure you're going to have to get a waiver for BUD/S. let me double check.

i'll get back with you tonight or tomorrow.

-s

[kenny555]

im sorry i talked to my brother 2 of the guys in Great lakes with him have ruptured their ACL, i know its a bad injury so if i was you i would research it all i could and not take advice from people who havent had it or who are not doctors.

[pt85]

Thanks for the replies

“what type of surgical procedure did you have?”

They used a segment of my patellar tendon, which required the screws… you probably know more about this procedure than I do.
It would be a lie if I were to say that I never worry/think about my knee, but to be honest I’m much more concerned with not getting the chance to go to BUD/s because I think that would hurt much more than falling to injury during training.
My trainer/coaches set me up with a program that I have since kept up with, although I’m trying to cycle off of weights and more onto bodyweight exercises. I finished the game with it torn, which probably wasn’t good for business, you’re definitely right about how something did not feel “right”.
It was the second game of junior year, which meant that the only thing the scouts saw that year was how efficiently I could walk.

Thanks for the help
Paul

[snow85]

kensei:

quit peeing in the pool. when i want you, you'll hear the timer on the pie. notice how that has NEVER happend. the guy was talking to me, not you. don't worry about SF, you're going to have to make it through MEPS first. the good news is that they'll read your forms to you, word for word.


paul:

at the patellar tendon graft with the short, fat screws and bone plugs. nice.

lucky you-- getting to walk for the scouts. i'm almost surprised no one offered to redshirt you. ah well. can't go back, right?

ya' lost me, will you rephrase please:

concerned with not getting the chance to go to BUD/s because I think that would hurt much more than falling to injury during training.

you're worried about not getting the chance to go? you'd rather roll back or wash during BUD/S? is that right?

yes, you need to do your other exercises, but do NOT cycle off your weights. in fact, do them until you ship, and if you can keep that up while you're at boot or ocs or wherever you're going DO IT. ESPECIALLY b/c of the type of reconstruction that you had. have you at any point had patellar tendinitis or a poorly tracking patella?

you can function with a torn ACL for a little while, but the other support structures in your knee (other ligaments, cartilage, etc.) will eventually be compromised. of course, you really have to limit your lateral movement to ZERO. however, finishing the game probably didn't hurt you any.

[pt85]

“you're worried about not getting the chance to go? you'd rather roll back or wash during BUD/S? is that right?”

yah, I’d much rather roll back than never get the chance to go (not get the wavier). If the worst were to occur, if I were to blow out my knee again then at least I would have that small satisfaction to know that I never quit.
Thanks for your advice as far as training is concerned, I have another two years of college so I hope to be as prepared as possible when the time comes. I’ve never had a case of tendonitis (I would be aware if I did right??) and I hope I don’t have a poorly tracking patella. …I have no idea what that means…
When I had the procedure done they said I had some cartilage damage but they thought that it would be best to leave it as is. If it has since gotten worse would it be best in your opinion to have it removed or cleaned up?
Also another thing, would it be easier to waiver into SWCC and then demonstrate that I’m capable of handling the stress and from there advance to BUD/S? Is that a disrespect to the SWCC guys? If so I wouldn’t opt for it.
Thanks for the input,
Paul

[kenny555]

what forms are you talking about? ive been through MEPS 2 times remember, i passed everything with flying colors, not one waiver needed.

[JonnyR]

There is no "ACL Waiver".. I was enlisted with the SEAL Challenge Contract with a repaired ACL/MCL/Posterior...with two pins and a screw. At MEPs they will have you take x-ray's, test the strength/flexibility and see if you are good to go. The Doctor simply asked me; "Does your knee feel stable, does is ever give out"? No problem..

[snow85]

i talked to my brother 2 of the guys in Great lakes with him have ruptured their ACL, i know its a bad injury so if i was you i would research it all i could and not take advice from people who havent had it or who are not doctors....


i've had an acl, separate arthroscopy, and am getting ready to have a second acl. i worked in physical therapy rehabilitating athletes, and was an athletic trainer. i've told you all this before. do you have anything more that you want to say to me about this?


paul:


I’ve never had a case of tendonitis (I would be aware if I did right??) and I hope I don’t have a poorly tracking patella. …I have no idea what that means…


yes, you would know. the front of your knee would hurt, probably extending an inch or two from your kneecap downward. it feels almost like the burning of a shin splint, but up near your knee. some describe it as 'creaky.' a poorly tracking patella can cause tendinitis, and yes, you'd know. it sits in a groove, and when it slips or tilts, or turns, it isn't tracking-- aka moving-- properly. since you don't know what these things are, it's pretty safe to say that you either haven't had them, or haven't had severe cases of either. they're common though, especially during the rehab phase, so your pt's probably watched very carefully for them.

they left your cartilage in place because they didn't feel that it was causing a problem. small tears can heal by themselves, but if they don't you eventually grind that rough spot down. larger tears don't usually heal, and have to be removed, kind of like cutting off a hangnail. it's very common w/ an acl rupture to tear the meniscus-- i did that too. mine was fine until later on, when i tore it some more. then i had to have it removed. honestly, i was fine until i did more damage. it was about a year-and-a-half later that i finally had the surgery. if you don't have problems, there's really no need to undergo the procedure, unless of course, you just want to. your tear may have healed on its own.

[pt85]

Thank you for the info & advice.
Paul

[snow85]

paul-- what was that previous thread? was there were i posted the disqualifiers to BUD/S from the navy's medical site?

[pt85]

yah, the thread dealt with a similar question, pretty sure it was a shoulder injury.
If you have the time i was wondering how difficult it is to differentiate between a poorly tracking patella and tendentious? Can a poorly tracking patella heal by simply strengthening the quad with a little R.I.C.E. action?

[snow85]

so.

those links are now bad and i'm going to have to go the round about way to get you the info. i'll work on it.

a poorly tracking patella will actually cause tendinitis. it's fairly easy to diagnose, but you have to know what you're looking for out of the patella. being able to palpate (touch) it helps tremendously, because you can't always see the problem. i can't really do that for you over the computer. RICE won't heal it because it's not technically an injury. it's a motor problem.

you need to strengthen your vmo-- the muscle on the inside part of your quad-- you know-- the one that sticks out by your kneecap. the muscle that you can actually see in this picture is the one i'm talking about. (copy the link into your address bar.)

http://www.lhup.edu/yingram/jennifer/LEMMT/KextSP.jpg

got it? it keeps your patella moving properly. usually, it is the one most often associated with a poorly tracking patella. sometimes though, it's other muscles.

let me find the official navy info and get back to you.

[kenny555]

so what she is saying is do leg extensions.

[snow85]

no, kenny, that's not what i'm saying. thanks though.

paul-- if you think that you may have tendinitis, do not do full leg extensions. there's a variation you can do-- i'll give it to you soon. i'm swamped, but haven't forgotten about you. hang in there.