Shoulder Surgery, Can I still go to BUD/s?

[ranger143]

I have a minor shoulder injury, however, it is significant enough to cause it to pop out of socket if I move it the right way. Obviously this injury would disqualify me from BUD/s training, however I plan to have surgery on my shoulder very soon, and my doctor guarantees that my shoulder will be alot stronger and more stable than it ever was before the injury, he says that its a differnent surgey than what he gives civilians he does it specially for military and law enforcement. I have wanted to be a Seal all my life and would hate for this small problem to prevent me from acheiving my dreams. I have been an athlete all my life, primarily a competitive swimmer and I have reason to beleive that my injury is sports related, probably football. Anyways, is there any type of waiver or anything that will allow me to attend BUD/s after having this surgery?

Thanks,
Ranger143

[JonnyR]

Talk to a Recruiter/SEAL Motivator...

[wopr]

Ranger143,

I had knee surgery and I had to obtain a medical waiver signed by my doctor saying I was cleared from medical treatment "without any restrictions". I put that in quotes because when getting a medical waiver for the SEAL challenge contract my recruiter (a former SEAL) told me that it is almost impairative that it say "without restrictions". That way no one but you is liable if you get hurt again.

[ranger143]

wopr,
How extensive was your surgery, and did you get the contract?

My doctor guarantees that my shoulder will be stronger and more stable than ever and that I will be able to do anything with it. I just don't want this to screw up my dream. I want that Trident so bad I can taste it, Tastes Kind of Salty (Ha, Ha).

[wopr]

ranger,

Yes I got the contract but again I stress that your release form you get from the doctor must state "without restrictions". I have my whole right knee scoped and the plica (sp?) removed. My knee is also better than it was before but get that release form. Email me if you have some more questions. I can show you what my release form looks like if that helps. I almost forgot. I also had extenisve neck surgery in 2000, they cut open the whole right side of my neck all the way into my spine, but again got a release form from my doctor that said "without restrictions".

Jerrad out.

[ranger143]

wopr,

well, thanks man, that makes me feel alot better especially if you had neck surgery and still got the contract.
I was thinking that there is no way in hell that the Seals would accept me with my shoulder problem. I should have no problem getting that release. I think I'm still going to talk to a recruiter or motivator just to be 100% positive, because the sooner I find out the sooner I'll try to get surgey. I appreciate it man, hope to see you in the teams, HOOYAH.

Ranger

[snow85]

whoa, there-- slow your rolls guys.

shoulders and knees are very different.

jerrad-- your scope is outpatient surgery, with MAYBE a 24 hour turn-around time. 24 hours after the surgery you had, you can return to FULL activity, whatever that may be. shoulders aren't always that way.

ranger-- do you know what you're having done? i don't have time to really help you out now, but i'll post some info later on tonight.

look for it.

-S

[ranger143]

snow

I don't really know the details of the surgery, my doctor gave me a packet thats supposed to explain the whole thing but it's like reading Japanese to me. All I do know is that I have torn anterior and inferior labrums (tendons, I think), he plans to re-attach the tendons and add a piece of bone to the socket to keep the shoulder in place regardless of what I do with it. He guarantees that my shoulder will be 50 times better than ever and that I'll be able to do whatever I want with it, and I trust hi, because he one of the best shoulder specialists in the state of Texas.

The doctor told me that he could do orthoscopic surgery, and the recovery time would be super fast, but he also understands that I am a correctional officer and that I want to get back in the military as soon as possible. So hes going to do a more extensive surgery that is the only surgey that he will do on military and law enforcement personnel, because he says he cant guarantee that orthoscopic will hold up in strenuous and dangerous situations.

Anyway, any info you can give me on this topic I would be grateful. I willing to do almost anything it takes to get into BUD/s, it is truly a life long dream and goal of mine. thanks.

ranger143

[snow85]

okay... you're actually near me, so i'll give you the same advise i gave M4A1Carbine--

before ANY large joint surgery, get at least a second, if not third, opinion.

i believe that your physician is probably a fairly good one (i'm familiar with your zip code ;-) ).

i can refer you to the same upper extremity specialist i sent M4 to: i've been to him a couple times, my mom has been, and M4... everyone has had positive results.

about your shoulder anatomy: read this article, and let me know if you understand it. if you don't, i'll explain it further for you. then i'll tell you about the surgery in non-physician terminology. you really need to know what you're having done before you do it. very important to you, the patient, in your successful recovery post-op. i'm not a doctor, but i worked in physical therapy and athletic training for a while, and was pre-med for just over 3 years. i will absolutely answer any questions you have to the best of my ability, and if i don't know, i'll tell you i don't know. i'll also help you find the answers that you need.

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1999/06_99/richards.htm

From the Horse's Mouth:
http://www.vnh.org/Admin/MMD/MMDChapter15.pdf

p. 41 of 112
Limitation of Range of Motion: {upper extremity}
Joint ranges of motion less than the measurements listed in the paragraphs below are disqualifying:

Shoulder (726.1)
(1) Forward elevation to 90 degrees
(2) Abduction to 90 degrees

above are the bare minimums to get into the Navy.
below are the disqualifiers for NSW/SO.

15-102 (p.77 of 112) discusses Diving Duty: read this because you'll have to qualify. (particularly 'musculoskeletal' disqualifiers.)

15-105 (p. 89 of 112) NSW/SO:
this is what you need to read closely. make sure that you understand it. look at page 92, J(2,3,7). that is where you will fall.

[ranger143]

snow,

Thanks for the info, its actually exactly the kind of stuff that I've been looking for. With those requirements, I could actually get through with my shoulder the way it is meaning that my range of motion is normal. My shoulder only comes out of socket if I move the right way, but my doctor checked the stability and range of motion and said that it all seemed normal. He said if it wasn't for the the MRI and X-rays that you couldn't tell anything was wrong until it comes out of socket. About the anatomy, my doctor's pre-procedure report says that my anterior and inferior labrum is torn, and that my rotator cuff is intact. He also tells me to be easy on it, meaning no upper body workouts, which sucks. Do you kwow of anything I can do to workout without causing further damage or am I better off just waiting until after surgery.

If I can find the packet that shows and explains the surgery I will scan it and send it to you and maybe you can help me understand it a little more clearly. And any more info you come by please let me know. Thanks again.

ranger143

[wopr]

Snow-

My knee was an outpatient surgery but did require PT to return to normal. However, my neck was not. I had more than 20 stiches in my neck along with a drainage tube, they cut my neck all the way into the spine down from my jaw down to the thrid vertebrate, I spent 5 days in the ER, and was on IV antibiotics for over a month. Serious **** !! Granted the neck is not a comletely dependent group of muscles that will be under an extreme amount of strain like a shoulder for instance but it was still very serious. My point was simply that if Ranger143 can get a release that says he is realeased from the doctor's care "without restrictions" then he should be able to get the SEAL challenge contract. That is from a SEAL recruiters mouth, not mine.

Jerrad out.

[snow85]

Serious **** !!


sounds like it. what'd you do/have done?



My point was simply that if Ranger143 can get a release that says he is realeased from the doctor's care "without restrictions" then he should be able to get the SEAL challenge contract. That is from a SEAL recruiters mouth, not mine.


getting the contract, maybe, but being approved is something different. just because you can get a waiver from MEPS doesn't mean that you'll get one further down the road. ducks need to be in a row from day one.

[A62]

Snow,

getting the contract, maybe, but being approved is something different. just because you can get a waiver from MEPS doesn't mean that you'll get one further down the road.


Have you verified your info?????


Jarred,

If you search the archive you will find multiple posts from a gentleman called Chickenhawk. In those posts he gave the name of Mike Eagleson at the office that grants waivers for BUD/s. He also gave a phone #. This would be the person to talk to, because, bottom line, niether Snow or I know WTF we're talking about when it comes to waivers. So it would be best to get it from the "horses mouth". my .02

A62 out

[mtgman]

A62, good to see you didn't jump ship with the others. I enjoy reading your posts (until you start talking politics, hahaha!)

[snow85]

bottom line, niether Snow or I know WTF we're talking about when it comes to waivers


you may not know anything about waivers, but you also may not speak for me without verification as to what i do and do not know re: waivers, especially those of the musculoskeletal variety.

next time, don't be so lazy and follow the link-- it's to the Naval Hospital's revisions on the Physical Examinations and Standards for Enlistment, Commission, and Special Duty.



ranger 143-- the link, (as i'm sure you've seen), was to a document updated 12 august 2005, to among other things, include NSW/SO.

[snow85]

snow,

Thanks for the info, its actually exactly the kind of stuff that I've been looking for....


ranger--

you're very welcome. the problem is that if it does sublux or dislocate completely, you're looking at a bunch of unknowns. i don't know you or how much you know about your own body, but it sounds like when your muscles are working, (i.e. when you're working out and using them), they hold your humerus, scapula, clavicle, etc. in place. is that true? have you ever had this happen WHILE you're doing pushups, or lifting, swimming, or anything like that?

the catch with muscles stabilizing joints to such an extent is that you never know if, when, and how they'll fail. i'm sure you wouldn't knowingly rely on a faulty fan belt or piston ring, regardless of whether it's working today or not. that's kind of like what you're dealing with re: your shoulder. anything that causes your shoulder to sublux/dislocate, applied with enough force, can, (not *will*, but *can*), do further damage. surgery for you is probably imperative, and if you're looking at BUD/S, a very good idea.


About the anatomy, my doctor's pre-procedure report says that my anterior and inferior labrum is torn, and that my rotator cuff is intact.


it's excellent that your RC is in tact. do you understand what the rest of this means and what the implications are in regard to physical limitations and potential physical limitations?


Do you kwow of anything I can do to workout without causing further damage or am I better off just waiting until after surgery.


yes, but i don't have the time to type it out now. my next couple days are very busy, so look for it on sunday. i'll try to get around to it earlier. you're going to need to clear it through your physician. pre-surgery, you want to be as strong AND as flexible as possible without doing further damage. that will help speed your recovery time and will also make the surgical site less painful. (and god bless america, that stuff can really hurt.)



If I can find the packet that shows and explains the surgery I will scan it and send it to you and maybe you can help me understand it a little more clearly. And any more info you come by please let me know. Thanks again.


that would be fantastic. i know about the surgery, but want to be able to clarify what your physician is telling you. different docs have different ways of doing things.

yep, i'll let you know. and as always, any questions you have, just ask.

-S

[A62]

it's to the Naval Hospital's revisions on the Physical Examinations and Standards for Enlistment, Commission, and Special Duty.


I say again, sparky, go the the source, and that would be the man that grants the waivers. if you were so "in the know" then you wold know that the waiver process is subject to subjective considerations.

Gentlemen,

Do what you would like, I would go to the source, not a website or a person that knows all.

A62 out