Sidestroke is too easy.

[M4A1Carbine]

Ive been working on my sidestroke. Never really tried before. My first day I swam continuously 15 min, next day 20, next day 30 (today). Over the past three days I have not felt a slight sense of fatigue. I know the max I've done is only 30 minutes continuously, but none the less it felt so easy. If I do it an hour will it really start to kick in? Also I'm not even becoming soar. Maybe I am doing something wrong. This is an example of the sidestroke style I've been performing. It a long url sorry...

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96781308/K=sidestroke/v=2/SID=w/l=VDP/SIG=126jhii4u/EXP=1130813851/*-http://home.gwu.edu/~buchanan/Scuba/SideStroke.MPG

........Anyways this is what my swimming style looks likes. Is there a different combat sidestroke I am not familiarized with?

You might find I posted a comment on a topic earlier but due to the lack of response, and mainly that the topic seemed 'dead' I decided to restate my reply. Sorry for any annoyances. Also one other thing, my neck gets really stiff when I swim. Sort of what some people refer to as a 'crick in the neck'. Is this normal? I think this is because my head is outof the water most of the time...

[cfog3291]

I find it relatively easy aswell, at it is supposed to be. It is the stroke that you can do the longest without getting tired. But remember, in BUD/S the water is around 53 degrees, the surf is rough, and your fatigued from the rest of the evolutions that day.

When I swim I do freestyle, it is about a hundred times harder. Twice a week I make sure that my side stroke is perfected though. I do freestyle 5 times a week and side stroke on the weekend with fins. I can guarantee that if you can swim freestyle continuously for an hour and 25 minutes or however long the last week of the warning order is at a fast pace, the swimming part will be a piece of cake for you. Doing the freestyle will build up all of the swimming muscles which will make the sidestroke even easier and make you a much better swimmer. Continue to increase your freestyle pace until you are swimming more than a mile a session. But make sure your sidestroke is still fast, long, and smooth. Also swim with a drag suit.
If you want a really hard swimming workout, I only do this about once every 3 weeks, alternate all of your laps with 4 laps of freestyle then 4 laps of butterfly. I wouldnt do this until you can complete and Category II of the swimming part of the Warning Order. Butterfly is the hardest swimming stroke and requires a ton of strength and endurance.

[akrock2001]

This stroke is great because you can swim a long way without to much fatigue setting in. At BUD/S you will do 2-5 miles swimming side stroke.

I think this is because my head is outof the water most of the time...

Your head should not be out of the water, your ear should almost be resting on your shoulder, then you roll on your on your back only letting your nose and mouth break the surface. This is suppose to be a tactical swim, no splashing, very streamlined and low profile.

[M4A1Carbine]

Thanks for the response. Oh and akrock I love the avatar. New extended DVD of Office Space is coming out, Im getting it for sure.

[mtgman]

Ak, did your wife finally win the battle of the "dancing girl" in your profile pic?

[snow85]

M4A1C--

lord,... i had no idea. if you want me to drill you in the pool, i will. (swam in college, taught... etc.) sidestroke is a resting stroke designed to get you to where you need to go w/o wearing you out. css is a little different.

if you want to wear yourself out in the pool, do fly laps for 20 minutes at a time. sprint 50, recover 25, sprint 50, recover 25....

let me know when you want to go for a swim. you have breaks coming up soon-- one week for thanksgiving, and christmas-- two weeks?

edit: fyi: sidestroke-- there should be a trough in the water created by the forward motion of your head. you breathe in the trough. same with freestyle. your head should stay in the water, focus on that ear being under. fly will really cut your shoulders and back, and your lower abs. if you do the hip roll right on your free, you won't have to work as hard to generate power.

[M4A1Carbine]

lord,... i had no idea



lol Snow, you seem so exhausted from my question....Oh and yeah we do havea break coming up.

[snow85]

lol Snow, you seem so exhausted from my question....Oh and yeah we do havea break coming up.


haha... thinking about my run yesterday... that was tiring, but not as tiring as the fly/recover workout and a run afterward.

once i get you up to speed, you'll be swimming at ~ a 4mile per hour pace, free, but probably slightly faster. (and not in the middle of the pool.) your best time to swim will be in the summer(s), since you have school and uil athletics from august through may.

later on (next year) if you want to do ocean swims, we'll work on it. always a good idea to let our Coasties and Beach Patrol know. you have to go out past the sandbar/s and fishing lines, so you might have to deal with rip currents and the occasional small shark. no big deal.

[OddBall]

but none the less it felt so easy.

Just a sugestion......If you find it easy in the pool, jump in the surf at high tide. Go across the surf, and then into the waves.

[snow85]

Just a sugestion......If you find it easy in the pool, jump in the surf at high tide. Go across the surf, and then into the waves.



haha.... if by 'surf,' you mean 'glassy smooooth,' like 6 times distilled v, then he's good to go. otherwise, we'll have to wait for another hurricane to get that 'surf.'

[mtgman]

Snow, where did you swim in college?

[snow85]

Snow, where did you swim in college?


ehhh.... nah. sorry. that's tmi.

my coach was a triathlete though, so guess who mastered the 20 min. power nap and then got recruited? those naps were lifesavers.

[mtgman]

Oookay! The reason I asked is because my brother is a college swim coach. College swim coaching tends to be a small world.

[snow85]

Oookay! The reason I asked is because my brother is a college swim coach. College swim coaching tends to be a small world.


yep, it is. my relationship with the coach wasn't 'normal' per swimmers. it was more per triathlons. i doubt your brother would know who i am, but he probably knows who the coach is.

[mtgman]

my relationship with the coach wasn't 'normal' per swimmers

Ohh! One of those relationships huh?! You could probably score some cash from the university. You know how they hate scandals!!! Just remember, you're the victim, Snow, you're the victim.

[fbmanimal]

What are fly laps?


When doing the combat side stroke, do you always stay sideways or does your stomach go parallel to the water and then you turn, well how exactly does this go anyway?

[akrock2001]

Ak, did your wife finally win the battle of the "dancing girl" in your profile pic?

Yep, I just got tired of hearing it, you've got to pick your battles, I'm sure you know how it is...

[snow85]

fbmanimal--

fly laps are just laps of the butterfly stroke.

css is a combination of the traditional side, breast, and freestyle strokes.

you do the normal sidestroke scissor kick the same way and at the same time as you do during the normal sidestroke. (pull, kick, glide.) no matter what side you're on, your top leg should always be the forward leg.

hmmm... the easiest way for you to start the stroke is from a glide on your stomach. the arm that would usually be on top in your side stroke will be the arm that uses the freestyle pull. so from the glide, pull the same way you would for free. pull through your hip. (you make a slight backward question mark with your hand as you pull down your body past your ribs and through your hip.)

you breathe to the side the same way you would for freestyle. so to answer your question, yes, you are parallel to the floor of the pool, but you also turn. in a correct freestyle form, the movement is the same. you 'technically' breathe on your side due to the hip roll.

when your 'freestyle' elbow breaks the surface and you start to pull your hand out, begin a breaststroke pull with the other, bottom hand. you hold off on this because the arm movement is shorter and you want your hands to recover together. as your 'free' hand comes over the top, your 'breast' hand should be at your chest. they both go back in front of you at the same time, to recover together for the glide. the glide is the same as in breaststroke and sidestroke-- pull, kick, glide. it's really a lot easier than it sounds.

does that make sense to you?


mtgman--

yessss, the victim...haha... nah. i liked the university and they paid me to sit in the classroom and absorb the sunlight through the windows and then leave class early. can't really beat that.

[OddBall]

otherwise, we'll have to wait for another hurricane to get that 'surf.'

Well,..That $ucks , Guess he`s stuck with swimming up stream or something. !!

[fbmanimal]

Snow85,
Thanks alot for the info on the side stroke. appreciate it.

[tingkka]

something that i'm having trouble with is that i can't go too far with sidestroke. i know that it's a resting stroke, but i get tired too often. what may i be doing wrong? any suggestion snow?

[IT3IHateSand]

Guys, if your doing the sidestroke and not feeling tired, then your just not putting out. Sure it's a resting stroke or whatever you want to call it, but that doesn't mean that you swim lazily for 500m. If your going to have a competitive time of around 9:30 then your going to have to swim pretty fast. And if your saying you can swim 500m without getting tired at that speed then i will bow down to you. Trust me, when you take the screen test and have to swim 500m, then get out and do push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, and run 1.5 miles in boots. Your going to feel the swim. Make sure your doing the combat sidestroke, you will go faster and smoother in the water in my opinion if done correctly. I'm not going to get all technical on technique and how it relates to other strokes and all that BS cause bottom line none of it matters when it comes down to it. Just practice, practice, then practice some more, then when your done, do some more practicing. And remember it's not practice makes perfect, it's perfect practice that makes perfection, if that makes sense. Anyways, just thought i'd throw that out there.

[mtgman]

you've got to pick your battles, I'm sure you know how it is...

All too well.

[snow85]

fbmanimal--

no problem if there's anything else you need to know, just ask and i'll try to help you.

tingkka--

are we talking about sidestroke or css?

your form is crucial to your energy output. improper form will ensure that you're expending way too much energy on either stroke. i might be able to help you, but i need a little more info.

[tingkka]

are we talking about sidestroke or css?



I'm doing sidestroke. i don't know how to do CSS at all. i can go for about 7 minutes before i start tiring out. perhaps it's my stroke that's having problems. i do 100 yards in 2:10. i think it's a bit slow. it takes me about 11 full strokes with the kick off to go 25 yards. i go about 8 yards just with the kick off and underwater pull. my swim coach (when i had one) said that my stroke was good. he just told me to focus on gliding. also... my right leg is always the leg that goes forward. i get very minimal propulsion with my left leg going forward. i use my right leg for both sides. i just started working with the kick board to get my left leg conditioned...but the habit already had its toll.

i'm not sure if this helps.

thanks for your advice.

[snow85]

Tingkka--


i can go for about 7 minutes....


how are you w/ other strokes?

have you ever heard the phrase: Swimmers can run, but runners can't swim?

it's so true. if you're having that problem all the way around, then you're probably just not in swimming shape. if you're only encountering difficulty during your sidestroke, then you're clearly bleeding energy somewhere.

remember: sidestroke is the slowest stroke there is. you're not going to have freestyle times. the longer the glide, the slower each individual stroke. (css is a little different.)

you're going 8 yds w/ the wall and a pull? are you gliding out, or are you kicking while you're under? from the wall, try to do a dolphin kick. that will get you *at least* another 2 or three yards. some say to come off the wall with your chest facing the bottom of the pool and others prefer to be on their side. the choice is really up to you. the point is not to stay under for as long as you can, but it will keep you from losing momentum when you break the surface.

it's hard to say without actually watching you swim, but it sounds like your kick is inefficient. side stroke is ideal for resting and towing people or equipment, so if your hands are otherwise occupied, your kick is crucial to propulsion through the water. the best way to fix this is to train with the kick board on both legs. when you're holding the board, don't lay on it. hold it out in front of you, hands on the bottom edge of the board. it's only supposed to provide you with a minimum level of buoyancy. lay on your side, ear in the water. you can rest your 'top arm' on your hip or wherever is comfortable for you-- just try to create as little drag as possible.

when you kick, your feet should be flexed and pointly slightly outward. (if you were standing, this would look almost like a ballet dancer, but with a smaller turnout of the feet. make sense?) when you bring your legs back together, your legs should be straight. (bend knees, kick out, feet & legs back together, glide). try to focus on your feet and on a correct finish of the kick. at the end with the beginning of the glide, your toes should be pointed. feet are flexed when in the scissor movement and pointed on the glide. with 'normal' sidestroke, your bottom leg goes forward-- so i'll bet you've got more propulsion when you're laying on your right side. the power phase of the kick is NOT the split-- it's when you bring your legs back together. when you do this, you're essentially displacing the water with your feet and propelling yourself forward.

try that, let me know if it helps. if it's not clear, ask, and i'll find another way to explain it.

-S

[tingkka]

how are you w/ other strokes?

have you ever heard the phrase: Swimmers can run, but runners can't swim?


I think that's true too. i can run pretty well... but swimming isn't really going well for me at this point. i can do other strokes well... but long distance wise, i'm not in shape for those.



remember: sidestroke is the slowest stroke there is. you're not going to have freestyle times. the longer the glide, the slower each individual stroke. (css is a little different.)



oh... i think i found out the reason why i suck so much. i try to do some "power" stroke, which i have an imaginary belief that it'll make me faster.




you're going 8 yds w/ the wall and a pull? are you gliding out, or are you kicking while you're under? from the wall, try to do a dolphin kick. that will get you *at least* another 2 or three yards. some say to come off the wall with your chest facing the bottom of the pool and others prefer to be on their side. the choice is really up to you. the point is not to stay under for as long as you can, but it will keep you from losing momentum when you break the surface.


I'm gliding the whole way chest to bottom. i wear speedos, which i believe makes little difference from trunks since i get the same distance. i haven't tried doing the dolphin kick. i'll be sure to try that.



when you kick, your feet should be flexed and pointly slightly outward. (if you were standing, this would look almost like a ballet dancer, but with a smaller turnout of the feet. make sense?) when you bring your legs back together, your legs should be straight. (bend knees, kick out, feet & legs back together, glide). try to focus on your feet and on a correct finish of the kick. at the end with the beginning of the glide, your toes should be pointed. feet are flexed when in the scissor movement and pointed on the glide. with 'normal' sidestroke, your bottom leg goes forward-- so i'll bet you've got more propulsion when you're laying on your right side. the power phase of the kick is NOT the split-- it's when you bring your legs back together. when you do this, you're essentially displacing the water with your feet and propelling yourself forward.


I think you hit the dot here. i just do some randomly, yet rthymic, kicks that resembles scissors. i didn't put much thought into keeping my toes straight. i'll try that and tell you how it goes.

yes, my right side is a whole lot more powerful than anything. i can swim quite a distance on my right side, but i tend to alternate from left to right every lap (25yrds), and i feel getting tired on my left side. but with your advice, i'll try again and tell you how it goes!

thanks for the information!

[snow85]

if you're looking for a swimming workout that will increase your running cardio, swim freestyle.

no need to power through the traditional sidestroke until you know that you're doing it correctly. once you know that for a fact, you can make your own modifications to it and increase your speed. css is a more powerful, faster stroke, but it would definitely be beneficial for you to have a strong, correct, scissor kick going into that stroke.

the suit you wear makes no difference in speed unless you're an olympic or professional swimmer. wear what you want, just don't swim naked in the public pool.

okay. scissor kick:

lay on side

legs both bend together from hips, thighs should be parallel to feet. knees are bent to ensure 'parallel thigh activity.' like you're sitting in a chair.

feet are flexed.

one leg forward, one leg back, feet still flexed, like a-- you ready for this?-- scissor. try to keep feet in line w/ hips and not let them float up or down in the water. you're looking for a relatively even plane.

then back together, straight legs, feet flexed on the movement to displace water.

toes point on the glide.

alternate sides w/ the kickboard to be sure that you're working both equally. definitely let me know how it goes, and you're welcome.





[total threadjack-- 'shark attack shows'--?? like shark week on the discovery channel?]

[snow85]

tingkka--

it's been a month-- how's your swimming?

[tingkka]

tingkka--

it's been a month-- how's your swimming?



My swimming's going great! sorry i didn't respond here. your advice was great! i worked. i stopped timing myself during the first half of the work out. i usually do about 25 seconds for the 25yard, and after doing cardio, i do about 27 seconds. so i slow down towards later part of the swimming. anyhow, i've been slowing my swimming speed down and focused mainly on my strokes and techniques. it's beeng going great! also, i've incorporated doing push-ups during my swimmings too. so i do 25 yard sidestroke, do 20 push ups, 25 yards, push ups, etc. when i do this, the strokes feel really light. i just started doing the push up thinggy.. so pretty soon, i'll do 50 yards and 20 push ups, and then 75, etc.

i hope you understand what i wrote. it's 12am, and i'm in a hurry to go run.

[DonW]

M4A1Carbine,
Your head should remain inline with your spine and should not be out of the water. Instead your head should be back in the water to the point where the water circles your face. You are not rolling your body at all during your side stroke. You should roll your body between nose up/nose down while swimming. When your scissor kick comes together you should be in a nose down 90 degree position. As your speed begins to bleed off you should roll your body back to air. Also, narrow the range of your kick and keep it more inline with the shadow of your body. Sorry about the late response, I was on vacation. DonW

[DonW]

tingkka,
It sounds like you are swimming uphill! Are your head and shoulders out of the water? If so, press your upper body into the water until the water circles your face. This will free your hips and legs to come to the surface making you more streamline. Let me know if that makes swimming CSS easier. DonW