View Full Version : SWCC as an officer
STRIKER-33
10-19-2005, 05:56 PM
Hey guys its me agent, well I have another?
I was just wonderin about bein an officer in SWCC, as a SEAL I herd its harder to make it threw BUD's
due to the fact that u go threw the same training as any other and on top of that u have to stand out as a leader and there’s no chance to screw up, not that there’s a chance anyways. haha
Ok anyways back to my ?, so is it harder as an officer in SWCC training, and what’s there training like?
is it anything like BUDs?
THNX AGEN----STRIKER
skimmer
10-19-2005, 06:32 PM
Let's put it this way......
Rank does NOT have it's priveledges.....
It's left at the door....
They go through the exact same training as Enlisted.
But Officers are expected to take charge and lead....
Kinnikinik
10-20-2005, 02:36 AM
Right now there is exactly one officer who has ever gone through SWCC, and he did it on a test basis. The officers in SWCC are either SEAL officers or SWCC Warrant Officers (Former SWCC chiefs). Occasionally you will see a Surface Warfare junior officer in the mix, but they are trying to phase that out. The training they do go through is identical to the training everyone else goes through. That is one of the things that draws the community together. When you meet someone in Special Warfare, you know know that at some level they have gone through the same kind of experiences that you have.
I would absolutely LOVE to have SWCC officers in the ranks. Currently you have to go through BUD/S if you want to be a Special Warfare Officer. I would like to at least be able to see Special Warfare Officers come from SWCC using officer ascencion programs (STA-21). It makes no sense to me to send a veteran of Special Warfare through the initial training all over again. Send them to the schools they need to be up to speed with the rest of the community, call it good and give them a gold SWCC pin.... but of course that is my opinion and I am sure that the higher ups have their reasoning.
STRIKER-33
10-20-2005, 02:03 PM
SO they do go threw the same training, and there are officers in SWCC?
whats SWCC training like?
THNX------STRIKER
Kinnikinik
10-20-2005, 07:08 PM
Basically... BUD/S with more swimming and boats.
If you want to see the breakdown head on over to www.SWCC.navy.mil, but that is pretty much the gist of it. SWCC guys don't dive, so dive phase is out. There is no Hell Week(I think that is the biggest difference)... but they make up for it in their own special ways. FMP (Full Mission Profile) Is a blast... its a really rough week though. And then there is LaPosta... man what a kick in the nuts. Hauling sand bags up and down the mountain, and the Super Billy, break out, survival training, weapons training that leaves your fingers raw and bloody...
If ya don't know what I'm talking about on the last few, those are a few things you just have to experience for yourself.
skimmer
10-23-2005, 10:06 PM
And then there is LaPosta... man what a kick in the nuts. Hauling sand bags up and down the mountain, and the Super Billy, break out, survival training, weapons training that leaves your fingers raw and bloody...
Jesus "K" don't tell the kid everything now..... Next you'll be telling him how we roll the boats over on purpose.... Including dancing around campfires with our underwear on our heads!!! (No we ain't singing).
LOL.
Striker, like K said, there are things that we can tell you about, but without experiencing these things, you'll just never understand completely.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and deal with it as it happens.....
STRIKER-33
10-24-2005, 01:37 PM
HAHA thanks guys, so there are officers that go threw the same training as any other in SWCC,
haha thanks agen!
SWCC! Sort of sounds like SOI.... School of Infantry...
I have a lot of respect for you Boat guys....
skimmer
10-27-2005, 06:07 PM
I have a lot of respect for you Boat guys....
Thank you MK.
How did the officer perfrom during the course and do you forsee SWCC offering more billets up to the Officer Community? Thanks.
Kinnikinik
12-08-2005, 06:27 PM
He did very well, in fact I believe he was the honor grad of his class. I think that he got swept up by the SEALs after graduation though since he had gone through BUD/S first.
Damned shame too. This is a touchy subject in the community (at least for boat guys.) I will address it in another thread that has the same gist as this one. The short answer here is that it does not look good for SWCC officers in the near term.
STRIKER-33
12-10-2005, 08:49 AM
haha im confused.......what dosnt look good for SWCC as officers??
Kinnikinik
12-10-2005, 08:29 PM
OK, SWCC officers would be classified as "Special Warfare Officers." The requirement for a SPECWAR officer is for them to have gone through BUD/S, not SWCC. Currently, aside from that one case, there are no SWCC officers. All SWCC commands are run by Navy SEALs. There are programs right now for SWCC Warrant Officers... which is a step in the right direction. Still, Warrant Officers are classified as workspace experts and have a limited role in the actual command level operation of SPECWAR. That still leaves all command billets (aside from CMC) being held by SEALs.
There are a few problems with this:
1. The command level does not have an equal representation at that level. Unfortunately, as much as anyone can say that they are treating everyone equal, people work for what they know. Four or five SWCC Master Chiefs, while a formidable force, simply cannot adequately ensure that the needs of the SWCC guys are taken care of because the Commanders don't have the in the dirt knowledge of what SWCC does. I know it is difficult for many SWCC guys to have a leader tell them that they need to be more like SEALs, or the SEALs do this. I give a ton of respect to the SEALs who are in command and are doing a great job, but in order to effectively operate I believe there should be equal representation.
2. Where is the upward mobility for the SWCC personnel? One of the best things people can do is take an interest in their community and take a leadership position because they think they can make a difference. In the SEAL community there are programs such as LDO and STA-21 that can make SEAL officers. I know several junior SWCC guys that are officer quality, and yet if they apply to become officers, they are forced out of the community... that is unless they go to BUD/s, after which they will be SEALs and most likely won't make it back to the community anyway.
What are the arguements against this?
1. People will not give SWCC officers the same respect as SEAL officers. Special Warfare Officers must be able to command both SEALs and SWCC. For SEALs, the true test of whether you fit in is if you have been to BUD/s. Well, this is a moot point. SWCC is the same type of training as BUD/s. In fact, it would be easy to have supplemental Officer Training such as dive school, Special Warfare Leadership, and Demo school to get them up to speed. SEAL officers already go through training to get them up to speed for SWCC operations, so why not the other way. An officer is required to be at the top level of physical fitness as well as at the top level of mental readiness. I contend that if you throw a SWCC guy in the mix who will give the best of the SEALs a run for their money in PT, and who is competent and can be taught, the respect will be earned. It does not take a shiny piece of metal to make a Special Warrior, and not all men who wear the badge are worthy of it. The badge is simply a symbol that says that we are all at a certain level. Beyond that it is up to each man to prove who they are.
2. Special Warfare officers wear SEAL pins. Why should we give SEAL pins to SWCC guys... my answer, don't. Give them the Special Warfare designator, but allow them to wear their SWCC pin. If you so desire, make a gold version of the pin. We want the position, not the pin.
3. Not enough duty stations. There are three different Boat Teams, the schoolhouse, NSWG's, forward operating bases, and even staff advisor positions open throughout the Navy. I'd hate to cut into the SEAL's shore duty, but give the the other SPECWAR their due. I believe we can find positions for SWCC officers and open up SEAL officers to lead the ever expanding ranks of the SEAL Teams. In addition, TCS is growing and will need support from the SPECWAR community. This is a wonderful place to send additional officers, and a very appropriate place to put a SWCC officer.
In conclusion, it is an uphill battle for the SWCC officer. I sincerely hope to see them in the next three years, but unless we get some upper level Special Warfare officers thinking this way, it is not going to happen. I invite any of you who have connections who can facilitate this change to talk to them about it.
On a personal note, I would like to talk to someone about this. This issue effects me in some fairly signifigant ways. If you, or someone you know has the ability to do something about this, or has some sort of influence at the level that can effect this change, or you simply would like to discuss this more in detail, please contact me at kinnikinik@navyseals.com Thank you very much.
And I hope that answered your question better.