Question about wrestling for Kinnikik or Swimmer

[seymour_butts123]

Would you guys recommend wrestling for good preparation for SWCC training.

[Kinnikinik]

It wouldn't be bad for conditioning, but the truth is that as long as you can do 50-60 push ups, and about 90-100 sit ups upon entering SWCC, you will be fairly well off in the push up and sit up category. The program is scaled so that you do more pushups and situps as the program progresses. Thats not to say that being better conditioned in these areas will not make things easier on you. Its just I believe that your main emphasis should be on running and swimming. If you have those down, then the wrestling would be a good idea. If you can fit it into your shedule along with running 2-3 times a week AND swimming 2-3 times a week, it would be good. I think Skimmer made a great comment on another thread about not burning yourself out. It is easy to be gung ho and kill yourself, but remember your body needs some time to rest. If you can work it into your schedule and you are not neglecting your running and swimming, go for it. If you feel like you are continually wearing yourself down (not sore tired, but starting to get hurt tired) I think the wrestling should be the first thing to go.

Also, be careful if you decide to augment your training regime with weight lifting or something else that will bulk you up. You may end up strong, but strong is not what gets you through SWCC. SWCC is an endurance sport. It is also a mind game. Recognize what is important NOW and be prepared to face the concequences of your actions. Right now the information I want to leave you with is: swimming and running are the two things that you will not have time to improve on very much in SWCC. Come to SWCC prepared for these two things and the rest will fall into place. Don't neglect push ups and sit ups... just put more emphasis on swimming and running.

[SIGdude989]

You'll get plenty of pushups, situps and running in wrestling. Have any questions about high school wrestling just ask...

[seymour_butts123]

You'll get plenty of pushups, situps and running in wrestling. Have any questions about high school wrestling just ask...


Hey man. I am a sophomore and this will be my first year of wrestling. I am currently in football im a lineman. Im just wondering if its too late to start wrestling and is wrestling good self defense?

[Kinnikinik]

If your choice is between football and wrestling... go wrestling. And yes, in my opinion wrestling is good self defense. While you are doing wrestling if you want to use it for self defense, check out some Judo or Jujitsu books. They have alot in common with wrestling, but they will teach you some illegal throws, chokes, and joint locks that wrestling will not teach you that are VERY effective in self defense.

In my high school wrestling and swimming had different seasons. I would suggest doing wrestling and swimming. If they interfere.... do swimming. Also, if you can fit it in your schedule, do Cross Country. I think the people who had the easiest time did swimming and cross country in high school.

But... swim. Did I say that before? I must be repeating myself... swim swim swim swim swim. I can't emphasize that enough.

[seymour_butts123]

If your choice is between football and wrestling... go wrestling. And yes, in my opinion wrestling is good self defense. While you are doing wrestling if you want to use it for self defense, check out some Judo or Jujitsu books. They have alot in common with wrestling, but they will teach you some illegal throws, chokes, and joint locks that wrestling will not teach you that are VERY effective in self defense.

In my high school wrestling and swimming had different seasons. I would suggest doing wrestling and swimming. If they interfere.... do swimming. Also, if you can fit it in your schedule, do Cross Country. I think the people who had the easiest time did swimming and cross country in high school.

But... swim. Did I say that before? I must be repeating myself... swim swim swim swim swim. I can't emphasize that enough.


Footballs in the fall so is cross country i picekd football over it. Wrestling and swimming are both in the winter so i think im gona take up wrestling. Im gonna try to get lesson for swmming at the local YMCA.

[Kinnikinik]

ahem... swim

[skimmer]

ahem... swim

So what are you really trying to tell him? LOL.

Ok, guys..... Don't swim..... DROWN.

[SIGdude989]

I would trust the SWCC guys and if they say swim then swim alot for SWCC just do it...

As far as self defense for wrestling? I would say very little. You may be able to knock a guy of his *** or something...hold a criminal until the cops get there maybe...anyway it wouldn't help at all in a fist fight, atleast from what I know.

[Kinnikinik]

I agree that it won't help in a fist fight, but for the most part you want to choose your environment in a fight. If you are good at wrestling, last thing you want to do is slug it out. If you take a fist fighter to the floor you may have the advantage of being where you are comfortable and where he is not comfortable. You are correct though, straight wrestling won't finish a fight for you. I'd augment your wrestling skills with some JuJitsu or other martial art that involves ground striking, choking, and joint lock submission if you want to make the ground your emphasis... or work on your kickboxing skills as well.

I'd have to agree with SIGDude that it is not the best for personal defense, but it gives you a good background to build from. (Also, what happens if someone comes at you with a weapon... all is fair in a street-fight.)

[TNFire]

I just wanted to put my two cents in, take it or leave it. This is coming from a person who wrestled on the toughest high school team in the state of Oregon for four years, that’s not much for the competition around the nation, but the coaches where damn near the best a high school could get. When it comes to conditioning, if you have coaches who force everyone to put out 200% then you will be in the best physical shape you've ever been in your entire life. Mental as well. The amount of mental toughness, endurance, and heart it takes to put out for six minutes in one of the most physically grueling sports in the world is uncomparable to any other realm you could be in during your high school career. Running is a joke compared to a two and a half hour wrestling practice where you bust you back every second. If you try it you will see your run times come down drastically, because they love to run you, run you till you drop. Swimming on the high school swim team is a joke compared to a wrestling team. And I don't say that because I don't respect swimming. I say that because in the high school league swimming is a fun sport and wrestling is a tough one. Wrestling coaches show little mercy or sympathy and drive you to the point where you feel your going to die, and then they push you a little more. You would be shocked what your body is capable of handling. Swimming on your own on top of wrestling will only put you in greater shape and give you an edge over your opponents that you face in a match. As well as get you ready for SWCC. No matter what you do, do not train on your own. You could never push yourself the way three coaches who have been through it before, know where limitations are, and don't feel the pain you do could. It makes tough hard knuckled men out of most little girls that begin and follow through with it. My sophomore year of high school I was better conditioned than I have been and will likely ever be in my entire life. And that’s because you have a team pushing you from behind to break every limitation you think you have.

As for self defense, I don't know if any of the guys who have posted have been involved with wrestling very much or with fighting wrestlers, but it allows for some amazing advantages. You can't win a fight on wrestling alone, I agree. However you have a ton of moves off of wrestling that you can manipulate for the situation a completely overwhelm your opponent if you know what your doing. The basics come down to this; If you know how to swing a punch, and are a skilled wrestler, you can take out nine guys out of ten. That’s because few that you would get into a fight at a bar with will know how to counter anything you do, and those who do would need a background in jujitsu or other martial arts to effectively fight against you. I am not saying that if you wrestled be ****y and think you can take the world, you have to watch out and not do anything stupid. Like taking a poorly timed shot into a guys knee for instance. You'll be knocked out before the first punch is thrown. But wrestling combined with some submission could result in a fight against a guy twice your size who has a broken arm before a punch is thrown. Preferably you hear him squeal like a girl and don't break his arm, but you'd leave quite an impression. For the actual defense side of things its amazing. Half the people out there only know how to fight from what they've seen on t.v. and in the bars. Anyone who stands upright with fists in boxing position would get pounded by me. Because stance is the most important thing in a fight, protecting yourself. When you think your in a boxing match you leave your whole lower half below your chest open for attack. All you consider protecting against is a punch. Knock a guy to the ground and you’re a wrestler and its over. Get tied up and you’re a wrestler and its over. It gives you quick reaction time and a better scope of how to fight. You don't get tunnel vision just trying to knock their head off. This is just from my perspective, like I said you don't have to take it if you don't want to.

Everyone who has responded has had great points. I just disagree with them slightly due to my experience. Swimming is extremely important. But it is also my experience you can read up on swimming, you can teach yourself the techniques and improve your times on your own. Running as well. However wrestling will leave you with an experience that rivals no other when it comes to mental toughness, teamwork, and overall endurance. I ran an average of 15-20 miles a week for wrestling. To stay in shape and keep my weight regulated, and give myself an edge against my competition. I would say defiantly wrestle and don't swim with the team. But swim on your own as much as you can. Wrestling is only four months out of the year, and leaves you in better shape than a swimming season ever could. Plus you'll know what it's like to really have to fight for something you want, I mean fight till you think your going to die, and that’s when you will learn if you have what it takes, if you'll make it or give up when things get tough. I am currently preparing to enter the BUD/S training and I knocked their PST out of the water. Tore it apart and made it look like a joke. And that was from learning most of my swimming technique, which still needs a lot of improvement I'm sure, on my own. Wrestling was the best thing that I ever did for myself, and I will never waiver on my attitude towards quitting or taking the easy road because of it. Wrestle, swim your *** off, and never give up on what your fighting for.

[akrock2001]

As for self defense, I don't know if any of the guys who have posted have been involved with wrestling very much or with fighting wrestlers, but it allows for some amazing advantages. You can't win a fight on wrestling alone, I agree. However you have a ton of moves off of wrestling that you can manipulate for the situation a completely overwhelm your opponent if you know what your doing. The basics come down to this; If you know how to swing a punch, and are a skilled wrestler, you can take out nine guys out of ten. That’s because few that you would get into a fight at a bar with will know how to counter anything you do, and those who do would need a background in jujitsu or other martial arts to effectively fight against you. I am not saying that if you wrestled be ****y and think you can take the world, you have to watch out and not do anything stupid. Like taking a poorly timed shot into a guys knee for instance. You'll be knocked out before the first punch is thrown. But wrestling combined with some submission could result in a fight against a guy twice your size who has a broken arm before a punch is thrown. Preferably you hear him squeal like a girl and don't break his arm, but you'd leave quite an impression. For the actual defense side of things its amazing. Half the people out there only know how to fight from what they've seen on t.v. and in the bars. Anyone who stands upright with fists in boxing position would get pounded by me. Because stance is the most important thing in a fight, protecting yourself. When you think your in a boxing match you leave your whole lower half below your chest open for attack. All you consider protecting against is a punch. Knock a guy to the ground and you’re a wrestler and its over. Get tied up and you’re a wrestler and its over. It gives you quick reaction time and a better scope of how to fight. You don't get tunnel vision just trying to knock their head off. This is just from my perspective, like I said you don't have to take it if you don't want to.

Lots of good points. Being in the military, I've had my fair share of bar room brawls, some quick and easy, some where the bouncers didn't have enough man power, which resulted in the cops breaking it up. My roomate, down P.R., was a High School wrestler, and a good one at that. His downfall was he wreslted for points, and anyone who's been in a street fight can tell you, the only points you get on the street, are cool points from your friends for winning the fight. Saying all that to say this, in one of the big brawls we got into, he took someone to the ground, and paid dearly for it. The locals saw one of their own, getting ruffed up on the ground, and decided to break beer bottles and bar stools over my friends head and back.(His head was so swolen, he could hardly wear his cover the next day) To wrap it up, I think being a wrestler in a one-on-one fight would be a great advantage, maybe even two-on-one, if your quick. But in a bar room brawl, I don't think wreslting is the way you want to go, stay on your feet, and take you chances thowing shots to the throat and the jaw.

[Kinnikinik]

You stated your position very well. I can not agree with you more that wrestling will get you in incredible shape. I have done Judo off and on for years (basically Japanese wrestling) and I know what a workout it is. I have also seen plenty of wrestlers in high school and out. Trust me when I say that the conditioning that you get in wrestling is good, BUT day in and day out at SWCC you will work those muscles that you worked in wrestling. You will run everywhere you go. You will do pushups and situps and calisthenics FOREVER! But, you only have a few chances to be able to swim. Pool time is precious and those who do not respect it, regret it. The first day of swim training the SWCC instructors tell you that the number one thing that loses people in SWCC is the swimming. I am a very good swimmer. To tell you the truth, I cruised through the swimming portion of SWCC. But I remember having to pull my non-swimming buddies through the surf. I remember using my precious weekend time trying to teach people how to swim just to try to get them to squeak by. I remember seeing those same people wash out and end up on the cutting room floor. One of them could do push ups like a mad man, did 37 pull ups straight, and ran 3 miles in 18:00 or so... in boots. The water kicked his ***. I was generally the first person done with swimming. I would wait 8-10 minutes for the last person to finish, and then right after they finished, we were running off to do something else. Man, those 8-10 minutes of rest were nice. I wouldn't trade that time for anything, especially not for 10 pushups.

I am going to hold my position that swimming will better prepare you for SWCC. You may have aced the swim, but it is a different beast wearing boots and utes in the water. Small errors in technique equal a hell of a time in the water. Even for you I suggest that if you have time before you go to BUD/S, join a club team or the high school swim team. Swimming IS on par for a workout with wrestling. It is just that you are improving skills you will use in SWCC and BUD/S, instead of just buffing up to sink in the water.

Not trying to attack you in any way. I respect all forms of training, and if it is working for you, so be it. Just if I were to do it all again with that choice... swim your little butt off. When your boat blows up (skimmer ;) and you have to rely on your skills to get home... I'm going with my swimming skills and letting the wrestler handle the sharks. We'll see who gets home sooner.

[skimmer]

This is what we've been trying to tell everyone here on this Forum.

Weight training, proper nutrition, and running, is a great way to get a head start from the rest of the pack, but swimming is the best way to get miles ahead.

Like both Kinnikik and I have been saying all along, we've both have seen guys who could kick butt when it came to running, pushups, situps, etc. etc. but when it came time to hit the surf, those same guys were being dragged out of the water because they were lagging way behind. I know, because I was one of those guys who was dragged out of the ocean the first time we went in the water..... But it only took the one time. After that I basically screwed my head on straighter and pushed myself like I have never pushed before. Sure, I was still a little slower than most, but I never finished last again. And nobody had to jump back in to get me...

Towards the end, I was finishing up front, and thanked God for that extra 5-8 minutes of down time. Right after that we were running.

Yes, when you finally get out and start doing "real ops" you're going to have to be one hell of a swimmer to get to safety.... Remember this guys..... "IT'S EASIER TO SWIM DOWN, THAN IT IS TO SWIM ACROSS".

I don't know about the rest of you, but I refused to be shark food.

[seymour_butts123]

Thanks for all of your guys posts. Ive decided to wrestle because I feel i will have more fun with that but thank you for all of your posts they were very insightful. I think im gonna hit the YMCA swim there on times I have off.

[Kinnikinik]

Sounds good. Doing something you enjoy is important... I don't know if we mentioned that earlier but it is worth bringing up... thanks for bringing it up.

Bovin in another post talked about what he was doing with swimming at the YMCA. I would suggest doing something similar, or at least look into what club teams you have in the summer. Good luck and keep us posted.

K

[seymour_butts123]

Tnfire wrestling season begins in 2 weeks could you give me some insight on what to expect and how to prepare these 2 weeks.

[TNFire]

Well I don't know how intensive your school is. It completely depends on your coaches for what kind of *** kicking your going to get at the beginning. Ours were nasty though. I would say the best thing you could do is condition yourself so you have the lungs to tolerate some of the short matches you'll do. One of the hardest aspects of starting a wrestling season is how sore you are if you haven't done anything for a while. It could be one of the most painful things you've experienced, for now anyway. The best thing you can possibly do is run and swim your tail off. I was a little over the top when I wrestled. I dropped down to whatever weight my team needed me too, sometimes healthy, others not. My day would usually consist of a run before school, wrestling practice, running after practice, and circuit weight training to try and keep my strength up through all the cardio workouts. Because you can loose a great deal of strength during a season and I don't like to back track if I can avoid it. My morning run was usually four to five miles and I pushed myself to find hills and improve my times every time. Practice was brutal and our program was designed around conditioning in the beginning, teaching and drills, and sprints and matches at the end of practice. A match wears you out fast and what you'll find is the most useful things to have are good lungs. Sucking air and being winded is one of the most debilitating things. So condition yourself with long runs at least four times a week and on those same days go out later that night and find a track and do sprints. Or a hill, find the steepest hill you can and sprint it till you want to puke. Sprint up it and then walk down backwards, and do it again. When you go to the track at night or whenever works alternate your pattern and do more every time, even if you don't think you can. Do a half mile jogging warm up. Start with 5-10 hundred meter sprints back to back. Then do two four hundred meter springs. I got up to as many as 15 to 20 hundreds, and 6 four hundred meter sprints every session on a track. My warm up was two miles. It sounds harsh but that’s what makes you better conditioned than your opponent. You'll reap the benefits of kicking your own *** when you go flying out of the circle and sprint back feeling good and watch your opponent shuffle his feet and drag himself back to the center with his head hung low already feeling the pain of defeat because he mentally gave up and wasn't well conditioned. I didn't throw up more than three times during my four years in high school wrestling, but I felt like it every day during the season. Swimming sprints are great as well, they will tire you out a lot faster and have you gasping for air. Switch it up and bust your balls. No matter what you do make yourself be better or go farther every time. If I couldn't run my sprints faster, I did more. If my minutes per mile went down, I'd run till they actually started to come up. You get past the point where your side hurts and your lungs burn and get that runners high and start keeping a steadier pace. If I didn't reach that I would rest ten minutes and run a mile on a track and force a 5:45 pace. That may be realistic or unrealistic for you but just do what’s right for you. Another thing you should do is take advantage of having this opportunity to eat well and healthy. Start to cut the garbage out of your diet if you haven't already. There may be times when you need to make weight so start now the healthy way and try to avoid resorting to sweating it off. A good diet and the constant exercise should bring you down to your ideal weight. This is of course the way I did things, I would not call this professional information. I have a no mercy point of view when it comes to training and am always more than willing to help anyone out with tips who needs it. But I what I recommend would never be easy or fun. Take it or leave it, it's your choice. But I was the best conditioned one on a team of 40 and won countless matches because of it. Most of it will end when your practice starts, but I would always recommend doing something early in the morning every day. Rest in the evening if you need. But give yourself that extra edge and it will pay off later. One last thing you should do is neck workouts, your head will get beaten and your neck craned in all sorts of positions. The stronger it is the more you'll be able to fight off and endure. Strengthen you neck and always keep your head up. I hope this helps, and let me know if you need anything else or want me to be more focused on any particular point.