bad knees

[UnderOath]

Alright, im workin out, and my knees start to hurt just a lil, normal. right? i just started hearing like a really small popping noise when i do my squats. im assuming i should go to the docter, unless you guys have any suggestions. mabye my calcium isnt high enough idk please help.

[mikecav]

To tell the truth this happens to me all the time. It doesnt hurt me or anything so it doesnt really bother me. I look at it as cracking a knuclke lol. But if its hurting then definately see a doctor. Thats common sense man.
-Mike

[lelee28]

More calcium is probably not the answer for this problem. If it doesn't hurt I would just watch it and moniter the progression. A question, is your second toe longer than your first one???

[west43and10]

I really messed up my knee by putting off the proper streching. IMO, for BUD/S you want to be a great athlete, not necs the strongest.

[snow85]

underoath--

1. what kind of pain?

1a. rank it on 1-10, 1 low.

2. what kind of popping? where? is it in the same exact place each time?

3. what are you doing to work out?

4. are you currently taking any supplements?

5. just out of curiosity, what is your calcium intake? (that's probably not your problem.)

if you want help identifying and isolating your problem, you're going to have to be much more specific. my fingers pop too, but it doesn't necessarily mean that there's something wrong with them.

[UnderOath]

okay well it doesnt hurt THAT much, but the popping is along both sides of my knee cap, it hurts around a 5ish. i was doing squats, and everytime i would go down and up it would pop all the way down and all the way up, so its not like a finger cracking where it feels good after. i only drink milk on my cereal, im not a milk fan, although ocasionally i will buy a pint of coco milk witch i love. so yah, i think i will go to the docter eventually, i dont wanna screw anything up for the future, thanks for responding. keep it comin

[snow85]

is squatting the only time it does that? does jumping bother you? sprinting? stairs?

what kind of pops? several little ones? a big one down, and a big one up?

rank it 1-10. has it progressively gotten worse? is your skin warm to the touch?

has this ever happened before. (yes, i'm asking for a reason.)

it sounds like your patella isn't tracking properly. but i need to know more from you.

[JD0477]

I never post here (more of a lurker) but I've had to deal with a chronic knee problem for the last 13 years. I've had my knee re-constructed four times and have seen the best orthopedic surgeons Boston has to offer (and they are damn good). I can see where Snow is going with the line of questioning and it's exactly the type of questions a doc will ask you when you go to for a check up. However those questions won't really provide true answers even to a MD until they take some films and probably an MRI to assess the situation. Even then they may have to scope your knee to get a real idea of how serious it may be. I was a dumbass when I dealt with my injury and put off addressing it for way too long. I was a lacrosse player and would just suck it up and deal with the pain and ice it down every day. End result of my procrastination has been four re-constructions and a replacement procedure looming in the not so distant future. I'd strongly urge you to get it looked at. Even if it's not serious the doctors/physical therapists will put you on a track to manage it properly. If you end up dislocating your knee like I did it just gets progressively worse the more times it happens (for me that's easily over a hundred times). You may go to the doc and be told there's nothing seriously wrong and that alone is worth the co-pay, but you may find out about a problem thats developing and be able to do something about it before it becomes a major obstacle to achieving your goals. Anyway that's my $.02 for what it's worth. Best of luck to you... Cheers JD

[snow85]

what are you trying to do? scare him?



I can see where Snow is going with the line of questioning and it's exactly the type of questions a doc will ask you when you go to for a check up.


hm....



However those questions won't really provide true answers even to a MD until they take some films and probably an MRI to assess the situation. Even then they may have to scope your knee to get a real idea of how serious it may be.


not necessarily. an x-ray will tell you about arthritic conditions of the bone, or degenerative conditions, but not connective tissue. an MRI is not always the best course of action. for example, while they are routine in diagnosing ACL tears, 10% of those don't register on an MRI. not only are they expensive, but they can be unnecessary (when a manual test, x-ray, or bone scan may be more appropriate), cause confusion, and even prolong injury evaluation and the rehabilitation period. it's simply not practicing prudent medicine to assume that every injury needs x-rays, or an MRI.

underoath-- you do need to be vigilant and prudent, but not paranoid. take it one step at a time. start with the answers to the questions.

[MJ]

Alright, im workin out, and my knees start to hurt just a lil, normal. right?



depends on y u were on ur knees in the first place

[JD0477]

what are you trying to do? scare him?


Maybe a little. I wish someone had scared me way back when :). Cheers JD

[snow85]

I wish someone had scared me way back when :).


haha. would you have listened? i didn't....

[kr15]

i just started hearing like a really small popping noise when i do my squats.




are you using weights when you do your squats? if so, maybe its too much. OR.. you could be doing your squats wrong. Dont over extend the knee when you squat.. watch yourself in a mirror (at the gym or whatever) and see if you're doing your workout properly. If its something that happens when you run and do other things, then i would get it checked out.

[UnderOath]

alirght, the sounds is a bunch of little pops, like older people when they kneel down, but theres still kinda a burn. i was just doing squats when it started to happen. i thought it started last year when i was playing basketball. i went up for a layup and i landed when my knee was locked, i was out the rest of the game, and when a run for like 15 min + they BOTH start to hurt. im gunna go to a docter, i definently dont wanna have this be a problem later.

[snow85]

kr15-- i know you have to comment everywhere, but seriously, you don't know what you're talking about.



i was just doing squats when it started to happen. i thought it started last year when i was playing basketball. i went up for a layup and i landed when my knee was locked, i was out the rest of the game, and when a run for like 15 min + they BOTH start to hurt.


ah, and the truth comes out. always does. was this some sort of a pick-up game?

so your knees 'crack'. describe the 'burning.' it sounds like you may have torn cartilage, and possibly a floater in there. but again, that doesn't rule out an improperly tracking patella. (this is actually pretty common, and initial treatment is about specific weight lifting exercises, to make sure that your muscles/quad. tendon and patellar ligament are strong enough to hold it in place.)

does it lock up on you, or get really, really stiff? articular cartilage/meniscal tears can be diagnosed manually, (with something called a pivot-shift test), but not always. have you noticed any instability in your knee? a wobbly feeling? if you kick your foot out, so that your knee locks straight, does it have a hard, stopping feeling? (this is called and end feel. i.e. you know your knee is straight, and there's no possible way it's going to further, unless you hurt yourself.)

i wouldn't attribute the fact that BOTH of your knees hurt, to the possibility that you may have injured both of them. depending on what you actually did when you landed, (landed w/ a locked knee, hyperextension, got hit when you landed, and where, etc.), there could be something wrong, it could have been displaced pain (which is psychological), or it could be normal wear and tear, and there could be nothing wrong.

i suspect that for whatever reason, you think that there's something going on that needs to be looked at, or you wouldn't care, and wouldn't be posting on a forum. if that's the case, you need to see an orthopedist, preferably one who not only specializes in sports medicine, but one who specializes in knees as well.

if you're on your parent's insurance, check out what the policy stipulations are about seeing a specialist. do you need a referral, what the co-pay is, etc. you can get around the necessity of seeing 8 physicians, and having 16 sets of x-rays, when one of each will do.

by the way, using the word 'hurt' is kind of like going to the mall and looking for the guy in the hat.

another thing: there's a difference between hurting, being hurt, and being injured. only you can decide for yourself which of those things you are.

[kr15]

kr15-- i know you have to comment everywhere, but seriously, you don't know what you're talking about.



snow... i know you ALWAYS feel the need to share your "wisdom" but spare us your novels.

[snow85]

snow... i know you ALWAYS feel the need to share your "wisdom" but spare us your novels.


aw, Sippycup, it sounds like you've lost that lovin' feelin'.

if you don't want to read, don't.

you still don't know what you're talking about.

[JD0477]

i think i will go to the docter eventually, i dont wanna screw anything up for the future


Good to hear and exactly my point. Better to find out now one way or the other before you do any damage that might restrict you from the military altogether. Again, best of luck... Cheers JD

[kr15]

you still don't know what you're talking about.


1st off, youve said that twice with no explanation as to why my comment was wrong... so Im just going to take that as you just trying to stir **** up AGAIN.
Second, what are you that qualifies you to define medical problems online?? LPN, PRN, RN???

[snow85]

1st off, youve said that twice with no explanation as to why my comment was wrong... so Im just going to take that as you just trying to stir **** up AGAIN.


because you bore me, you're not funny, and i knew if you wanted to know, you'd ask.


are you using weights when you do your squats? if so, maybe its too much. OR.. you could be doing your squats wrong. Dont over extend the knee when you squat.. watch yourself in a mirror (at the gym or whatever) and see if you're doing your workout properly. If its something that happens when you run and do other things, then i would get it checked out.


1. too much weight isn't going to make your knees pop like that. but you didn't have enough information to make that assertion. have you ever diagnosed medical problems? ever?

2. over-extending a knee, MRS. PRE-NURSING, means straightening it to hyperextension. over-extension is NOT a medical term. straightening means 180* or 180* +/-, depending on various factors such as ligament laxity and muscle mass. when he squats, he's bending his knee-- which is not over-extending. (fyi-- underoath, hit 90 degress, but don't go down any further. deep squats with weight will mess up your knees.)

3. the main purpose of watching yourself in the mirror is to make sure that your head, aka your heavy skull, stays upright. this is also known as proper form. looking down, or anywhere other than straight ahead, can not only cause major back and neck strain, but can cause improper form, oh, and can cause you to lose your balance and fall. watching yourself in a mirror is secondary. by the way-- if you're suggesting that his form may be improper, why don't you tell him what proper squatting form is? go ahead-- give it a shot.

the medical field isn't solely about LPNs, PRNs, RNs, PH-RNs, CRNAs, NEs, BLS, ACLS, PALS, NRP, etc. you may be on your way to being qualified to check a pulse, but how on earth are you qualified to discuss weightlifting and knee injuries? oh wait-- you must have had one.

i'm definitely qualified. unlike you, and other people on these types of sites, i don't give misinformation, and i don't give medical advise if i don't know what i'm talking about. go stick a mannequin with a needle. if you get that far, your patients will care more about that, than what you've posted on a forum.

[kr15]

too much weight isn't going to make your knees pop like that. but you didn't have enough information to make that assertion


thats why i asked. i dont just jump to conclusions here.


over-extension is NOT a medical term


Source: On-line Medical Dictionary, © 1997-98 Academic Medical Publishing & CancerWEB:

o·ver·ex·tend ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vr-k-stnd)
tr.v. o·ver·ex·tend·ed, o·ver·ex·tend·ing, o·ver·ex·tends
1.To expand or disperse beyond a safe or reasonable limit.
2. v : strain excessively.






the main purpose of watching yourself in the mirror is to make sure that your head, aka your heavy skull, stays upright.


my point was to make sure he is doing the workout correctly not argue whats MOST important about looking in the mirror.




because you bore me, you're not funny, and i knew if you wanted to know, you'd ask.


the point of this web site is NOT to entertain you... or to be funny, OR to start stuff with everyone that posts...which obviously you enjoy. why ARE you here anyway Snow?? you dont have a guy in the service and you're not in Special Ops. Is it to grace us with your wisdom of how the body metabolizes gatorade?? or to try and diagnose a poorly tracking patella with no knowledge of this guy's background? or is it just to argue with every damn person that posts?? either way I, as well as many others, find it childish and aggravatimg as hell. you have nothing to offer here.


i'm definitely qualified. unlike you, and other people on these types of sites


wait a minute... arent you an OB/GYN or something like that?? I guess that makes you **** ing Dr. Spock. My guess would have been Proctologist.... but thats purely based on your snide, foul remarks.

[jessi91473]

You get on here and accuse Snow (and in the past myself) of starting stuff, read what you have written. All of what you have written, not just the easiest stuff for you to access. This is a PUBLIC forum. You don't have to be special ops (which you aren't either, you aren't even prior service, which I am) and you don't have to have a guy in the service (which I do). It's open to the public. If it weren't, you would have to prove your service, or the service of your guy to be on here, which means there wouldn't be 1/2 as many people on this forum, yourself included.

I have noticed by reading several of the threads you have posted on that anytime another female gets on and posts, you have the history of getting catty? Why is that? Everyone on here is interested in the service in one way or another, this isn't a competition as to who has the biggest ovaries or the most estrogen. It's a place for people of various backgrounds, experiences and histories to exchange ideas, thoughts, and stories, with an emphasis on the Navy SEALS.

Now, to the topic at hand. This young man (if you aren't a young man, forgive me, I didn't look at your profile), got on here to ask for some advice about his knee problem. Not to hear you get snippy and catty with Snow because she sounds more intellligent than you do, and you being a nursing student. When it comes to knee injuries, proecedures, problems and therapies, if it exists, Snow has had it. She doesn't do anything, or allow anyone to do anything to her, with out thouroughly researching the subject and getting advice, arguments and recommendations from all sides. This is one topic I would never really argue with her on, yet one I would freely go to for advice, as I did when my Dad recently had knee surgery, and she explained it better than the doctor who performed the surgery did. Experiance is the best teacher, it allows you to learn things that books and clinicals will never teach you. Ask any older nurse you know about it and they will tell you, they learn more once they get out of school and into the arena than they do in school being taught.

So, with that said, why don't you take a good hard look at the *** you are making of yourself, and try to reign it in. You are embarrassing not only your self, but your husband by acting this way on this site, him being a future SEAL. Conduct yourself in a fashion becoming a Service mans wife, and not like a highschool girl who feels she has things to prove. Our Service men deserve strong, educated, supportive, ladylike wives, not fishwives....

[Burner1]

UnderOath,

There is really no way to know exactly, what may be causing the popping in your knee, without a proper exam by a qualified Doc. I would recommend. Laying off your squats for a couple of weeks. I would suggest using leg exstentions. Pull back on your weight a bit and go a little higher on your reps. Maintain a slow and controled motion and really focus on the squeeze at the top of the movement. I use a triple set aproach. 1st set angle your toes out slightly; this will help focus on the inside quad. 2nd set angle your toes in toward each other; this focuses on the outside quad and for the 3rd. set feet straight. For and over all and upper quad development. Remember, all three of these phases only count as one set. Just remember not to overdue it. Adjust your weight to were you get a good burn, but you have to find that balance for yourself. This can help to strengthen the muscles around your knee which may help with your problem.

Personally, sounds like you may have some inflimation and I'm guessing your probably experiencing some slight presure on the knee. As snow said, you could have a floater or (trash in the joint). The popping could also be from scare tissue that has formed from the injury you recieved in the game. Knees are very proan to impact injuries. But as I said, there are many things that could be causing your problem. The knees take alot of abuse, especially if your training hard. Treatment could mean anything from simply having fluid drained off to having it scoped or even a full ACL transplant. Only a Doc. can determine the best course of action. Goodluck to you and remember don't push to hard to fast. But I hope the excercises above may help. Don't forget to work your hamstrings as well, though...It all works in conjuction to make your body preform properly.

[snow85]

if squats are bothering you, you probably shouldn't do knee extensions.

but if you do, don't do the full extension from 90 to 180. (knee bent, hanging down, to a straight leg.) if your patella isn't tracking properly, this will cause more damage, since it can slip around in the groove. start with your leg somewhere in between-- so that you're getting either 45* degrees of movement, or, if that's too painful, 20* of movement. same thing if you do prone ham curls. if you grind your patella, you'll end up with all sorts of rough surfaces under there, which can lead to chondromalacia (look it up), and arthritis. (those require surgery.)

i doubt you have an acl, but since you're choosing not to answer what i've asked you, i can't help you further. somtimes, popping is just fluid in the joint, and a sign to tell you to slow down.

if you want more help, you're going to have to tell us more about what's going on in your leg.

[JD0477]

which can lead to chondromalacia (look it up), and arthritis. (those require surgery.)


If anyone develops arthritis or chondromalacia I'd recommend you ask your doctor about synvisc hylan g-f 20 (http://www.synvisc.com/). Basically it's a series of injections (usually 3) that helps to harden cartilage. If you're scared of needles this stuff may be your worst nightmare. It has the consistency of Vaseline so they must use one of the largest gauge needles available. They do numb the area first so it's not as bad as it sounds. This stuff has done wonders for me. I was involved in testing this product and at the time they weren't sure if they could use multiple applications. Now they do. They claim that it will provide up to six months of relief, but for me it was more like a year and a half. I was more reliable than the weathermen when it came to predicting a big storm, now I'm as clueless as them. Okay I think I've plugged them enough... Cheers JD

[kr15]

do you really feel the need to defend Snow every time she gets into a discussion?? no one asked you...as a matter of fact..no one cares what you have to say. and dont talk **** about things of which you have no idea. you say all this crap about my husband being embarrassed or whatever when you should look at your mouth. wasnt it you that was on another thread talking about wearing shorts with no panties....hmm, your guy MUST be proud!



Our Service men deserve strong, educated, supportive, ladylike wives, not fishwives....

Spoken like a true hypocrite.

[Burner1]

wasnt it you that was on another thread talking about wearing shorts with no panties....hmm, your guy MUST be proud!

Personally, I prefer my ladies with no panties! LOL

Do I need to go drag the pool of Green jello over from the other thread; so you ladies can go at it again? Maybe we could have a benefit match. The proceeds going to fix UnderOaths BAD knees. (wink) LOL

[kr15]

Personally, I prefer my ladies with no panties! LOL


eww. the thought of easliy contracted STD's crosses my mind when i think of that. ugh.(shiver)

[snow85]

squat form:

(back squats, free weights, in rack)

some of this you probably do without realizing it.

BEGINNING POSITION:

-closed pronated grip
-grip slightly wider than shoulders
-feet parallel, under bar
-then move hips under bar
-two bar positions:
1.low: across posterior delts at the middle of the trap
2. high: above delts, at base of neck. (this is the one that is most frequently used. it's also the one that will bruise your neck (your 7th cervical vertabrae), if you don't use a collar, because that c7 sticks out, and that's where you rest the bar.
-lift and hold chest up and out. (chest up and out is important to form throughout the rep.)
-shoulder blades toward each other
-tilt head slightly up, focus on wall 30-60cm above eye level (keep head up and eyes forward throughout rep)
-lift elbows to create a 'shelf' for the bar
-step forward or backward, to release the bar from the rack
-position feel shoulder width apart, or slightly wider, even with each other (over time, if positioned improperly, your feet can cause knee and hip problems. be aware of this.)
-point toes slightly outward

DOWNWARD MOVEMENT:

-flex hips/knees. (you know how to squat)
-maintain erect body position, this will, of course, require you to stick your butt out, and that's the point
-keep your weight centered over the middle of your feet-- not forward on your toes and not back on your heels.
-keep heels on floor
-keep knees aligned over feet
-tops of thighs should be parallel to ground, going further/deep squat is no longer recommended by any medical professional, anywhere.
-do not bounce at bottom of movement

UPWARD MOVEMENT:

-slowly raise bar
-maintain body position
-keep knees aligned over feet
-do not let your knees move laterally, in or out.
-do not accelerate the bar at the top of the movement (keep your movement slow throughout.)
-re-rack

remember to breathe, and if you have a spotter, never, ever 'just' drop the bar, and assume that they've got it.

[Burner1]

A good rule of thumb with Squats. You look up. You go up and remember to push through the heels. This will help keep you in proper form and help keep the wieght off you knees. If you get on the balls of you feet. You will be more prone to injury. You will also be cheating your muscles by allowing other muscles to compensate. If you perform the form properly and isolate each muscle. You will get more bang for your buck so to speak.