PJ/CCT is it Special Operations?

[Taxcollector]

Combat Control and Pararescue? Are they really considered a Special Operations Force? or just support?

The questions is why is they are so glorified?

It seems to me that Combat Controllers are glorified pathfinders bred with ATCer mixed with CAS and very little CFF

BASICALLY A TACP WITH FLARE AND DIFFERENT COLOR BERET?

Pararescue is basically the SAME thing as an Army Special Forces medic, or SEAL corpman

Is it absolutely necessary for them to get scuba and halo in their initial training? how often is either of them going to use scuba. Halo I know they were the first to use it in a combat jump (i think tandom) also. but every person to get it in intial training? Don't you also get attached to other SOF groups? why couldn't you just go out on your own to complete the mission?

75th rangers don't get HALO of Scuba until they've gotten into a unit that has it same with sf.

It seems that all indoc is basically a prescuba course for pj's. and combat control is only 2 weeks? how can you have a special ops wash out course in 2 weeks?! I don't know much about it but i think most people could handle 2 weeks of training.

SOF= unconventional warfare


PJ/CCT whats so unconventional about it?

I'm wanting to join and was wanting more information about pj/ctt. Is this the easy route to go if your wanting to go into special operations? and get all the good schools?

One would think that it would be REQUIRED to seals and rangers and SF would get it before pjs (combat medics) and CCT (pathfinder).

Is it because the air force takes care of its people?

Thanks very much
jon

[A62]

or just support?


If your not a grunt, you are by definition, "support".




It seems to me that Combat Controllers are glorified pathfinders bred with ATCer mixed with CAS and very little CFF


Uhm, OK, and Pathfinders weren't warriors???????




Is it absolutely necessary for them to get scuba and halo in their initial training? how often is either of them going to use scuba.


Geee, pilots never get shot down over the water??




why couldn't you just go out on your own to complete the mission?


So, as CCT your gonna go set up the LZ AND conduct the OP????? They may be good, the ain't that good.




75th rangers don't get HALO of Scuba until they've gotten into a unit that has it same with sf.


And your source for this intell??? BTW, what 75th unit is "same as SF"???




I don't know much about it but i think most people could handle 2 weeks of training.


Geee, we had a school in RVN that was 3 weeks long and had a 50% drop rate. If the training is vigerous and mentaly chalanging enough I'll bet we could design a 1 week course and have a high drop rate. You have no idea.




One would think that it would be REQUIRED to seals and rangers and SF would get it before pjs (combat medics) and CCT (pathfinder).


What does this mean???

Every Spec Op capable unit has it's mission and way of training it's applicants. NONE are easy and we do not get into pissing contest as to which is "better"

Some CCt/PJ folks may have a few words for you.

A62 out

[rm]

hey taxcollector. abrasive post. do some research, or, take the easy way into sof and sign up for both cct and pj. sounds easy enough and you can get two cool berets. you should be fully qualified in what 3, 4 weeks??? get a clue before you call somebody out. all units have conducted some unilateral ops. and all units have conducted joint ops. the good thing about sof, is you can reach in to any unit to find the capability you want/need, and you know the unit members have been trained, tested, and assessed. the order doesn't matter. this is more info than your post deserved.... rm sends

[robcc23]

Thats is funny tax guy, you say that PJ's and CCT are not SOF but then you have the nerve to say they are the same as SF medics. Guy, really if you are a SF medic you are Special Forces and they have quite a bit more training than a Navy Corpsman. They go through a grueling 12 month medical course that would make your head spin. You offend all my buddies that are SF medics. CCT and PJ's are by all means Special Forces and serve with and saved the tails of many SF ODA's in Afganistan and Iraq. CCT's and PJ's train the same as we do, it takes close to two years to wear the berets they do, it is not just two weeks. That two weeks is to weed out the weak and the wannabes. They then go on to many schools that take months to complete. Of course they have to be scuba and HALO because they infil with the best and they have to be on the same page as the team they infil with. I think you should stick with your day job.

[WyldBlue11]

Hey tax,
You might need to post this same thread here...


http://www.specialtactics.com

You might have your answers....



WB

[Dreadnaught19]

Wow, For someone so interrested in becoming a PJ/CCT you sure do bash them a lot.

Trust me when I say that these guys are goood for, and deserve everything they get. Every tax dollar that we can put into their training is great, because it's not like their just doing it for fun...these guys mean business, and they're the ones who make sure guys who get into sh*t come home.

The Air Force PJs and CCTs deserve all of the respect you can give them, theres no need for some "know it all" (Which you definately don't seeing as PJs and CCTs go to indoc for 10 weeks of grueling, gut wrenching conditioning, then they can go to their other schools.)

If you truely think that becoming a PJ or CCT would be getting the "easy way" into Special Operations, by all means, join up and we'll see what you think of the PJs and GGTs that make it through the pipeline. Trust me, it's not easy...and to say otherwise is just ignorant.

Obviously you haven't read up enough on PJs and CCTs, because they do much more than fix people up and set up an Air Strip. These guys are the ones that jump in, fight off the enemy and either help a patient or set up a drop zone respectively.

The bottom line is, before you get on a website and trash talk an extremely admirable professon such as PJ or CCT you had better have (1) been there and Done that or (2) At least know your facts.

All men in Special Ops deserve to be called heros, and CCTs and PJs most rigtfully so. Special Operations is, by definition, elite, and enyone who makes it through any of the Grueling courses that Special Operations has to offer deserves respect....not back talk from an arogant punk like you.

Show some hard-earned respect for our Heros of the Air Force Special Ops, those who wear the Scarlet and Maroon Berets.

[robcc23]

Couldnt have said it any better! Before I signed my 18x contract a few years ago I tried to get into CCT and those guys are tough. Talking to alot of my instructors and active duty guys when they get home they have nothing to say but thank god for CCT guys. Dont sweat tax guy he just wishes he was as tough as he thinks he is.

[Taxcollector]

Dudes take a chill pill.

It was a legit post. And for people like you Dread drop dead. ohh I want to be a SEAL you obviously know about the same info on st than me so stop suckin up to everyone else in here and grow a sack. Trust you know NOTHING but 2nd hand info from your granddaddy

Listen if i offended you too bad im not apologizing take it with a grain of salt.

and another think dread your post is very contradictive..

"Obviously you haven't read up enough on PJs and CCTs, because they do much more than fix people up and set up an Air Strip. These guys are the ones that jump in, fight off the enemy and either help a patient or set up a drop zone respectively."

I guess i didn't specify EVERYthing they do drop zone air strip fall pretty much under the same category



your an idiot.

If i decide to go pj or anything and the instructors think they'll get me to quit they'll have another thing coming. They'd have to get me admintratively and by watchin recue warrior they do that alot. very shady wha they did to the redhead.

If i have to deal with people like you who can't just explain a simple Legit post then screw this i'll enjoy the nice beach life and get drunk and get laid.

Instead of perhaps answering my question you bash me for asking boy that sure is preofessionalism. AND lets not forget that im still in high school so you guys go on and continue to bash me sharpen up your egos EVEN more Idon't care.

thats the vibe i get from you dudes egotestical alpha males.. kinda pathetic. I think i'll just stick to the waves and the beach.

So thanks for setting me in the right path

jon

[GravyTrain]

Maybe you did not intend for it toTaxcollector, but the tone of your original post was somewhat brash. If you had a legit question you did not state it well.

[Dreadnaught19]

Drop Dead?...what are you, a freshman?

As another person has said, You did phrase your "legit" question in a very harsh manner. It seemed like you were being a Smart ***, and though you claim to not be, you just struck me as one.

Truely, If you want a legit answer, reread your questions to make them sound less demeaning. Reread your original post and tell me how YOU saw it, because to me, you sound like a snot-nosed spoiled B*tch with an attitude.

Also, you're a bit hypocritical because you talk about taking a chill pill then you throw a tantrum.

Don't let a post that doesn't turn out the way you want it to ruin your day. Just Wipe your nose, dry the tears and move on, puss.

Oh, and what's this life you were talking about? It sounded more like Beach Bum than anything else. Oh yeah, good luck with that.

I do respect your admiration for those who make it through other forms of Special Ops training, but you truely do have to respect those who wear the Maroon and Scarlet berets, because I didn't get that from your post.

[GravyTrain]

how can you have a special ops wash out course in 2 weeks?!


As for this point, Marine Recon Indoc is only 1 day so I don't think the length of time is necessarily a measurement of how tough it is.

[Burner1]

I don't know much about it but i think most people could handle 2 weeks of training.

YOu said it, not me or anyone else! Total immersion training is fast past, demanding and allows individuals that can hack it...to learn faster, more efficient and to better prepare individuals for fast past real world operations. In real world operations, you don't have to time to take a time out and go read the book....you either get it the job done or don't...there is no second place....So the fast past seemingly overwhelming training regime not only teaches you basic skills but helps teach you to think on your feet and think fast as well as commiting certain actions to muscle memory. Then you build on top of that by training, training, training and more training...over and over again...Striving for perfection!! Thats the purpose.....to be better than you were the last time you run the exercise. Each and everytime!

[icemanchrisc]

Tax Collector,

I know first hand that trying out to be a the PJ/CRO (Combat Rescue Officer) is as tough as it gets. Since you are a High Schooler it is understandable you do not know a great deal about the careerfield. All Spec Ops teams are different and fulfill different roles. Here what you should know about the PJ's. There is only 300 +/- in both active duty and the Reserves. Their training course Indoc is 10 weeks long and has the highest drop out rate of any Spec Ops training (this is the last I heard), to become a PJ takes about 1.5 years of grueling training (possibly the longest of the Spec Ops), they do act as a support team and they also carry out their own missions (Combat Search and Rescue or Personnel Recovery) and PJ's recieve a ton of training (Scuba, Halo, Jump, Medical, tactical, air support, plus a lot of extra's at their units). PJ's are unique in that they never have the initiative or upper hand. When they are called up, everything has gone to hell and they have to find a way to save someones butt in the middle of it. If you want a good visual example of this, watch Black Hawk down, PJ's and CCT were an intregal part of this mission although they recieved no credit in the movie. The specific scene is where the SAR bird is called into the middle of a fire-fight to rescue the men involved in the crash. In addition, they were on the ground with Delta and the Rangers. A PJ was also the first person to find and rescue Jessica Lynch. One of the main reasons you do not hear much about what they do is because of their number of people (300 vs Thousands of Seals).

All that said, if you want to be a PJ--I welcome you to tryout and I hope to see out there. Good luck and check out www.specialtactics.com (there you will find a host of information).

[TETHEPJ]

The Pararescue/CRO Indoctrination course is 10 weeks long...the entire pipeline (Indoc, Combat Diver, Airborne, Dunker, Survival, Water Survival, HALO, PJ School including Paramedic) is over a year.

Taxman, I encourage you to go to my site: Specialtactics.com

All the info you need is there...but I would suggest you to get your facts straight, and read the entire site and search the forums before posting a question such as you posted here...but frankly, guys like you really don't make it...you're not made of the right stuff...nothing personal, but with such thin skin, and the willingness to abandon a discussion on a simple webpage to go get drunk and laid...well, 'nuff said...you're appear weak, apparently you have no guts, and, contrary to what you claim, you would, in all likely hood, quit...you're don't seem to be the type of individual I would trust in any but the most arbitrary of situations...

I'd also encourage you to do some research on Personnel Recovery (PR) the PJ's primary mission...we are not medics, we are rescue and recovery specialists...BIG difference...

Finally, I thank eveyrone here who attempted to set the taxman straight on his attitude and buffoonery...much appreciated gents!

TE

[dinop-commando]

hey tax,
dont dog out the pj's or any other pat of the military for the fact that what everone does in the military is vital for the complet workings of the military. Anyway as far as the pj's are concerned they not only do military operations they also do civilian operations as well, they save lives no matter what they have to do to get to the injured or sick and bring them back alive. So therfore have to be trained to handle anything that come there way. As far as other special forces well, evryone works in the same environment everyone has to train hard and go to school and gain the knowledge to do there job well. You have to be smart. If this is what you want to do. Get some education go to school, make a solid descision of what you really want to do then make a wise choice. The pj's along with other special operations are a brotherhood so understand that before making comments about anyone. Because speacial operation forces respect everyone and understand what everone goes through such as a cook and what have you. They have all been there, they started somewhere before special ops. And beleive me when i say just because they have the beret or tab doesnt mean the hard part is over. They train and learn for the rest of there career. So as a closing to this I say good luck, make wise choices, train hard, and study hard before you make a career move.

[mvg]

TE,

Glad you answered. Anyone who has PJ/CCT questions needs to check out specialtactics.com. It amazes me every time I see pissing contests started by people who don't have a clue. Reading and watching TV/movies has given too many kids the wrong idea. I have had the chance over my career(yes, I am a REMF) to support PJ's/CCT's for training and their transportation needs. Some of the best people I have met in my career and never treated as if I was just a support puke. In addition, I work with some Army SF who were glad to have some around in the Desert.

Anyone who thinks these guys aren't warriors, some names to remember are: Capt. Derek Argel, MSgt. Mike Maltz, TSgt. John Chapman, SrA. Jason Cunningham(prior Navy)

[mvg]

Oh by the way, TACP's were on the ground with SF units in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[gonnabeaSERE]

My name is Paul and I joined the airforce. Recently I qualified to train as a SERE after basic and i consider them to be spec ops aswell. I train my *** off at home, mentally preparing myself to go through whatever i may have to during training to become a SERE and some guy like "tax whatever" decides he's going to dog on AFSOC?? Don't post that kinda **** unless you think that preperation will be easy. I dare you to go for it.

[hd883]

i was able to hang out with some special tactics cct members at hulburt field florida last month, and let me tell you these guys are top knotch. if anyone wants to say that they arent sof i am sure some of those guys down in florida would have something to say to you. these guys have almost 3 years of selection and training before they are even considered cct's, they are def. sof.

[kcwhite03]

hey guys i think that people have this common misconception about special operators. they think that just because a guy is in the Navy SEALs he's not a badass because he's in "THE NAVY" or "THE AIR FORCE." i dont care if you are in the Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, or Army, if you are a special operator then you deserve complete respect.
i spent four years in the Marine Corps infantry and iam now going to be a SEAL and let me tell you something. i've seen Recon, my platoon relieved a Recon unit while in Iraq and you know what they were doing? the same exact thing that we were doing just with M4s. i also had the opportunity to meet a Combat Controller while in Baghdad during the invasion that used to be in Marine Recon and he said that PJ school was harder than any school he has ever been to. ill just put it like this. Air Force Combat Controllers and PJs are ****ing AMAZING! there are only two reasons why iam going to BUD/S (1) because i've wanted to be a SEAL since i was thirteen and (2) because the Air Force doesn't take prior enlisted. Trust me i've talked to Air Force recruiters.
one more thing. have any of you ever read "Downrange" by **** Couch? its a book about SEALs in the war on terrorism and SEALs say specifically about CCTs that they never leave base without one!
these guys are not just your average "support" guys. they are air traffic control certified through the Federal Aviation for civilian as well as military air craft. These guys bring the heavy guns! AC-130 Specter gunships and any other fixed wing or rotary wing means of total destruction!

respectfully,

kcwhite03

[AFCBurt]

If i decide to go pj or anything and the instructors think they'll get me to quit they'll have another thing coming.


LMFAO!!! My brother we all said that we started 64 graduated 13. WE all wanted to quit at some point or another. My point is keep that attitude and dont stick your foot in your mouth:)