Best Handgun

[solid_snake_0]

In anyones expirience, what is the most effective handgun used on the field?

[A62]

In anyones expirience, what is the most effective handgun used on the field?


One that works.LOL Seriously, a "hush puppy" is the most effective.IMHO

A62 out

[ODA-14]

For reliability, accuracy and knockdown power I have always preferred the 1911. With a "Can" they can be pretty quiet also.

[blueskies14k]

The 1911 style pistol is an awsome handgun. I prefer the Kimber or Wilson Combat, but tactically they may not be the best. They only hold seven rounds and they are a double action( meaning the hammer must be in the rearward position to fire). Most operators will tell you that the Mk23 is also not a great tactical pistol. It is to big and bulky and It is a hassle to draw because of its length. I think the best handgun in the field is the Sig Sauer(P226). It is very reliable, it is fast, the trigger housing is of adequate size to fit a gloved finger in, it holds more rounds and is easy to draw---it is not as accurate as the 1911 but it is accurate enough to consistantly hit your target.
It is very well built and will easily withstand the strike if you drive the muzzle thru someones head.

[Burner1]

The 1911 style pistol is an awsome handgun. I prefer the Kimber or Wilson Combat, but tactically they may not be the best. They only hold seven rounds and they are a double action( meaning the hammer must be in the rearward position to fire).

This weapon is a single action weapon...However..I do agree the kimber is a excellent weapon...

I think the best handgun in the field is the Sig Sauer(P226).

I agree with ya on this for me personally...I've never had a problem with my 226..It has proven to be very reliable and comfortable to carry...However..I do disagree with you about the accuracy..I find it to be a very accurate and reliable weapon...and I place it second to none in my opinion, but its all about personal choice and what your comfortable with..Everyone has there own likes and dislikes..I think finding a good quality weapon and being comfortable with it and practice, practice, practice...thats the key...learn good fundamentals and build from there....just my opinion....

[blueskies14k]

This weapon is a single action weapon...However..I do agree the kimber is a excellent weapon...



I meant to type single action---hence the correct definition.

The P226 is not as accurate as the kimber. I agree that practice and comfortability are key. A good shooter with a sig will easily outshoot a bad shooter with a kimber. While the Sig is extremely accurate when compared to glocks and the HK, it is not in the same league as target model kimbers---different applications.....

I usually carry a smith and wesson .38 revolver because it is heavy and almost any engagement I am likely to have will be with in 10ft. No such thing as a jammed revolver.

[Burner1]

I usually carry a smith and wesson .38 revolver because it is heavy and almost any engagement I am likely to have will be with in 10ft. No such thing as a jammed revolver.

Nothing more reliable than a revolver, just keep squeezin the trigger and she moves on to the next bang...No worries about a feed jam or malfunction and maintance is very easy and straight forward...I do find the .38 a little on the light side, especially for primary carry..IMO as far as the GLOCK..I carry a Glock 26 as my backup weapon and I really like it..Mostly, cause it allows me to carry the same ammo as my primary weapon, and its light and compact...With the grip extentsions its still controlable and comfortable to shoot..but the revolver is definately reliable and for the everyday citizen..unless in a high threat enviroment..probably all the fire power ya would ever need...Its just a little light and limited in the capacity department..especially against an attacker that may be jacked up on meth, or some other drug..even adrenaline...but defineatly a good weapon for most cases...In my opinion...

[Doc76]

I am a weapons Instructor for my company and from my experience is that it is a personal preference. Everyone you ask can give you a different answer. I prefer a Browning 9mm hp single action. I make my own ammo and It has never let me down. I shoot 157 gr. hp rounds.

Doc 76.

But at work my Main is a Smith and Wesson model 10 .38 and I carry a special load in those for the hairbags that wanna get rich quick. I have seen those in action and I guarentee anyone who thinks they are ineffective at stopping someone they are verry wrong. Also that revolver takes a beating day in and day out and with the proper maintanance has never let me down.

[Burner1]

I agree 100% Doc, I think each person has to find what works for them and their situation..We are all different..Different needs, Different body types and different capabilities..Every person has to find what they are comfortable with and what is functional and efficent for them...Be safe, effective, and disciplined in their weapons use..thats just my opinion...

[Bomberman410]

i know this is problaly of topic, but can you tell me mor on the sig's? the Coast Guard is starting to integrate those in where my dad works and he doesnt find em all that hot.

[ThurstonHowell]

Sig's rock. 9mm isn't so hot. Sigs are very accurate. Easy to shoot accurately. They have a double action first shot and single action there after - a big deal if your first round is a misfire. Also sigs have no external safety, so its potentially faster with less to go wrong. 1911's are good but not universally reliable, that is, they vary more. I've heard of several 1911's that are lemon's, even some of the high quality (kimber etc.), but some are rock steady. If you ever have a chance to shoot an STI 2011 (a highly modified competition 1911) definately do it. That thing is the most amazing gun I've ever shot. It barely moves so the second sight picture is super fast. I've never seen or shot or heard of a sig that wasn't 100% reliable. 1911's are an old design that was admittadly way ahead of its time, but an old design none-the-less. They've been heavily modified over decades to make them much better. Its still a badass competition gun, but those are highly modified, and competition is where single actions shine. This being said the last IDPA world champ (Ernest Langdon) shot an almost stock sig 220 (226 in .45), and beat the most accomplished shooter in the world who was using a custom springfield 1911. But then again some guys (marine det 1) still use the 1911 successfully (a custome kimber). The 1911's biggest advantage is the .45 caliber and all the hot rod parts available. I'd go for a sig 220 or a 226 in .40 or .357sig (a very hot round with more energy than a .45). If your serious get a trigger job on your sig, it'd be hard to beat. I'm sending mine in soon as I get some time.

my 2 cents,
Thurston

[Burner1]

Excellent post..Thurston,


I'm right with ya...I personally like my 9mm...the . 357 sig is one hell of a round though, and with it being tapered down it feeds flawlesly...I guess I just don't like change...LOL as far as the Sigs go...I've been carrying mine for the last six years and the fact is..Its like your right hand...You know its going to be there for ya...When ya pull the trigger it will go bang! without question..at least I've never had a problem...its dependable...an amazing weapon in my book. Simple, and to the point..Pull, point, sqeeze..nothin to it, but to do it!!!

[blueskies14k]

For anybody who doesnt think the 1911 is fast enough.


http://www.midwesttraininggroup.net/images/video/billdrill.mpg

Altough his tactical/combat stance isnt that great.

[Doc76]

Amen to that bro!!!

Doc76

[SIGdude989]

I've been shooting since I was six. My favorite handgun is probably a .38 smith and wesson K-frame.
My dad agrees with most of you guys about the Sigs, since thats what he and his team carries a 226 in .40

[Doc76]

ahhh. the .40 cal (the poor mans .45.)

awesome knockdown power in a hollowpoint.

Doc76

[Burner1]

I haven't had a whole lot of experience with the .40 cal, but hear good things about the round. But I figure, two in the chest and one in the head..after that I don't care how hard they hit the ground..LOL Personally, I still prefer the 9mm. The .45 does have alot power, and it is a great round. but I find that the recoil effects the grouping when firing double taps and increase the time between shots, while reaquiring the target. Just slightly, but every split second counts in my opinion. I think its a matter of personal choice and the job at hand.

[Doc76]

just a reply about the 1911, My Browning is a 9mm hi-powerd single action with the mag saftey out. Nothing can go wrong with it except ammo. Comp barrell that can handle hot loads and a Very High powered recoil spring.(that has on ocassion nocked primers out. I have yet to see a better design of a pistol. In my opinion anyway. I think the original Browning is it.


Doc76

Ps I dont think it matters what country or combat zone your in parts are readilly availible

[bulldog1261]

awesome knockdown power in a hollowpoint

Is that similar to the fabled "one shot stop"? I gotta tell you, I've seen guys shot with 9mm,.38,.45 and even the .40 and with the exception of headshots, I've never seen anybody stopped or knocked down with a pistol round.

[Doc76]

awesome knockdown power in a hollowpoint



I have personally witness this several times and have double tapped a hairbag once myself and funny thing happened, they hit the ground like a bag of rocks. The hairbag I dropped was wearing level 2 Body armour.

Doc76

The reason behind this is the 9mm moves pretty quick but being a hollowpoint the energy is transfered into the body instead of passing through.

Doc76

[bulldog1261]

If you say so. I do find this kind of interesting though because I too was shot twice with a 9. I didn't even realize it until someone told me and I then saw the blood. It didn't knock me down however or stop me from doing what I was intending to do. A few years ago two Officers here were ambushed. IIRC one was shot 11 times and the other was shot 5 or 6, both with a 9. It didn't stop them or knock them down but I'll admit it did slow em down for awhile. What kind of ammo were you using in your incident? I'd like to get some.

[Doc76]

In your case over penetration could be a factor, through and through, Most times you dont feel it until the adrenaline wears off. In the other case I wouuld love some info on that I could use it in one of my classes. As for the ammo load and use scroll up through the posts.


Doc76

[bulldog1261]

There was no overpenetration, both rounds were recovered. When I ask about the ammo you were using, I am referring to type of bullet, manufacturer, weight etc., etc. My point is that it's pretty much accepted by those that study ballistics, that in those cases where victims of gunshots fall down or collapse, it's because thats what they see on television and they think that thats what happens when one is shot, so thats what they do. When I was a young buck, I too bought into the one shot stop concept or the knockdown theory. Having been in the line of work that I'm in for many years and having been on the receiving end of a couple of rounds and either seeing, being involved in or investigating shootings, I have come to be in agreement with those experts. It's not the caliber or the gun that causes people to stop or collapse after being being shot, it's the belief that thats what happens next. BTW, my comments refer only to pistol caliber bullets, not head shots, RPG's, mortar rounds or artillery, etc., etc.

[Doc76]

Im not going to argue about you getting shot and it not being a through and through. Guys dont fly around when hit like seen on tv because the energy of the impact is lost when the bullet leaves the body. the reason they go down is either from impact of a shot(transfer of energy) when the bullet stops in the body and causes massive tissue damage, the bullet richocheting of of bones and striking a vital organ or shock from actually getting shot. Kevlar stops the rotation of the bullet and absorbs the impact. the hairbag I pegged was from about 20 ft and It knocked the wind out of him and he went down. And again I posted that info about bullet weight and caliber earlier. I agree and see your point, but I will also note, the bigger the gun the bigger the bang for your buck. I would rather get picked with a 9 than a .50 desert eagle.

Any way I am dropping this at this point I think this is going nowhere to answer the original post again Each gun performs different with different ammo and each person using it. It all depends what you are comfortable with. DO your reasearch and hang out at a range and ask questions before buying, and when it comes to handguns, you get what you pay for, If your cheap thats excactly what your going to get a cheap piece of crap.


Doc76

[blueskies14k]

I hope I'm not interupting a closed discussion, but I wanted to add my .02.

Keep in mind the priciples and objectives. The main objective when shooting someone is to stop motor function. The first way is damage to the nervous system, cerebral cortex, brain stem, spinal cord etc...
The second, and usually most applicable, is a rapid drop in blood pressure. A rapid drop in blood pressure is created by blood loss. This is why I prefer a larger caliber i.e. .45. Obviously, a bigger hole and more blood loss. I don't want to get into the physics of momentum and energy of a lighter bullet traveling faster and blah blah blah---Just remember secondary injury from handguns is rarely even taken into consideration.
By secondary injury I mean: The tissues around the path of a bullet expand at the rate of the bullet--with a rifle this expansion is more significant and usually leads to rupture, not usually the case with handguns. Another secondary injury is bone fragments. Remember they too are moving at the speed of the bullet, but like the expansion, handguns don't have the same effect.

I personally believe the weakest weapon is the shooter. I don't think enough shooters are deliberate with their shots. I promise one shot stops are more then reasonable, especially with the double tap. If shooters shot to kill their target and not just hit it, this conversation would be irrelevant

[bulldog1261]

I personally believe the weakest weapon is the shooter

Couldn't agree more

I promise one shot stops are more then reasonable, especially with the double tap

Then it's a two shot stop, not a one shot stop.

[bulldog1261]

Im not going to argue about you getting shot and it not being a through and through.

I hope not

Guys dont fly around when hit like seen on tv

I know, I've been there.

I would rather get picked with a 9 than a .50 desert eagle.

I'd rather not get shot at all. It hurts.

And again I posted that info about bullet weight and caliber earlier.

You mention that you handload a 9 with a 157 grain bullet. Can you tell me what brand that is and where can I get some?

[blueskies14k]

Bulldog,

I would prefer a response to my entire post. Please don't pick one sentence. This is a subject that I am also comfortable with---maybe for different reasons.

What would you say to the rest of my reply?

There is a level of science behind this. I think it is worth more than one line.

Thanks for the interest--I hope you don't interpret this as sarcasm.

[bulldog1261]

We are pretty much on the same page. The only thing I would add is that with todays technology there is very little difference between the different calibers. I've done testing on my own, and while it may not be the most scientific, it did demonstrate to me that there is very LITTLE difference in the circumfrence of the recovered rounds, those being 9mm,.40 and .45. I own and carry handguns in all of the above calibers and I do not feel undergunned with any of them. I'm confident that they will all perform as expected. The old 9mm. vs. 45 or the light and fast vs. big and slow debate is meaningless with todays bullet design. I've seen too many people after being shot with the so called big bore handguns, continue their criminal behavior which makes me believe that shot placement is a much bigger factor than caliber. As a matter of fact I've seen a guy shot smack dab in the chest twice with a .45 and it had NO effect.

[future_frogmanstudd2]

As a matter of fact I've seen a guy shot smack dab in the chest twice with a .45 and it had NO effect.

Iam sure it had an affect on him .....No offence towards you bulldog but I .45 will make one hellove a bigger hole then a 9mm....I find if you wanna take a guy down, the old method of two (middle of the) chest shots followed by one to the head will more then likely takedown anyone, regardless if its a 9mm or a .45......

just my 2 cents



Mike out 10-4

[Doc76]

As a matter of fact I've seen a guy shot smack dab in the chest twice with a .45 and it had NO effect.



Ok bulldog you just proved to be a bull **** ter. Last time I respond to you. 2 .45s hitting the breastbone would kill you before you knew you. what happened.


Doc76

[bulldog1261]

No son, I'm not a bull...... I deal in the real world, not the classroom. This little "conversation" will cease right now because it's obvious that you get your information from books and videos, not the streets where I get mine . I highly suggest you go back to your internet sites and books and do some more research. When you gain SOME knowledge of ballistics and what happens after a shooting, then come back and we will talk. I might even send you copies of the reports of that incident, an incident which was resolved by a headshot with a .38 from the Officers partner. So no more macho BS, no more "war stories". Go get some real world experience. Until then, bye, bye junior.

[future_frogmanstudd2]

Edit

[Mac679]

There is no miracle round.
People can and do survive .45ACP hits just as they can survive ( at least for a little while ) hits from a .50BMG round.
The psychology of the target is just as important.
A couple of little stories: My battle buddy in OSUT was a National Guard type. In the civillian world he was a cop. He told us of one shootout where the suspect had been on lethal doses of MDMA and survived being hit in the head by an ASP baton by my buddy, tasers, dogs, and when he finally went down he'd been hit 14 times with 8 rounds lodging in his body, by .45ACP
I have personally seen a man take the better part of a burst of 5.56 ( how big of a burst? well a good portion of a 100rd belt was gone-some of this was from shooting through an obstacle and because Hadji popped out and scared the hell out of my guy ). He survived the initial burst ( granted he wouldn't have made it through the day but he was still breathing and making noise when he went down ) but not the 2d to the head.
A fellow sniper took a shot with his XM107 .50BMG and hit his target in the gut with a Mk211 HEAPI round ( which apparently hit nothing solid to set it off ). The guy wandered off somewhere to die.
In his book "On Combat", LTC David Grossman recounts the story of a female police officer who took a round *TO THE HEART* who managed to kill her assailant and call for help and is still alive to this day.
If you need more proof, research the name MSG Roy P. Benavidez. This Special Forces Medal of Honor recipient took IIRC, 7 major gunshot wounds ( 7.62x39mmR ), 19 shrapnel wounds, and a bayonet wound in Vietnam. He passed away a few years ago.

As for what handgun is best, whichever one you've got access to with the brown fecal matter hits the rotary ventilation device.

[Burner1]

Who the hell you talking to "son"? Besides I've seen what both calibers can do and know a .45 will takedown a guy, and a lot of the time in one shot....Well if you get your info from the streets you need to move to a safer place, eather that or your gonna get shot....Apparently you have no "real world" experience "junior" so STFU and read what you put, cause you talk like a man with a paper a s s in the middle of a forest fire....

Your 19 years old....where the F*ck do you get off talking to someone like that and telling them about what they've seen and done....and its not about moving to a safer f*cking place...some men have to go into some real **** holes, cause thats the job...and young little know it alls like you...depend on them for security and comfort....I don't have a problem with you having your opinion...But maybe you should grow up a little bit and have a little respect for your elders and your betters...cause untill you've been there...You can't say what you know...every situation is different...Your profile says your 19...seems to me. your the one lacking real world experience....You run around here giving everybody flak and binging a negative attitude to posts, trying to act tough...well. I'll tell ya this..YOur a f*ckin joke if you think thats what tough is....Your nothing but a know it all kid and I hope that when you grow up..you understand how out of line you are...You need to check yourself!!! cause your being stupid and ignorant....your ****y attitude only shows everyone your inmaturity and lack of self confindence...being confident is not being ****y! learn the difference. You try to tear everyone down every chance you get, to try to feel better about yourself..well your an idiot..and I got no use for your kind!!! Learn some respect and know your place! Untill you get there..Don't tell someone who's been around the block. what you know.. cause you don't know sh*t, unless you've been there!!!

[Serenity03]

I ditto what Burner said. I haven't read your stuff in this site but I've read enough in other areas to agree with him.

I'm sick of your "I'm so great 'tude." So until you can bring yourself down a notch don't IM me.

[sandfrog]

future-frogmanstudd Quote:
"Who the hell you talking to "son"? Besides I've seen what both calibers can do and know a .45 will takedown a guy, and a lot of the time in one shot....Well if you get your info from the streets you need to move to a safer place, eather that or your gonna get shot....Apparently you have no "real world" experience "junior" so STFU and read what you put, cause you talk like a man with a paper a s s in the middle of a forest fire....



Mike, you are proving your self to be an assclown of the highest degree. Shut the hell up.

[millerc]

This WAS a great thread with fruitful content before this damned pissing match went underway. Ebb the hot attitudes and keep this thread GOOD. It's too early to end such a good subject!

Now to add to this thread, as the name of it is "Best Handgun"; I couldn't tell ya which one is the best(I have yet to shoot them all) but my favorite is, for sure, the Browning Hi-Power(9mm). It's not a replica like many that I have seen out there. Hydrashok ammo would be my choice in a self-defense or TEAM-defense situation(most expansion I have ever seen with a 9mm round). What ever you do, don't buy PMC(Precision Made Cartridges) even for plinking, they come with weak loads and do not cycle well. Atleast, this was my experience with them.

I would choose a 9mm in a combat situation just because of the amount of ammo that you can throw at the enemy, not the size of the ammo.

A62 is the only one on here that has mentioned the "Hush Puppy"!! That suprises me... is there anybody else that would like to share any experiences that they have had with this sidearm? I have always wanted to shoot one.

Note: I am only 17, glad to not have experienced a firefight, but have been shooting(safely) since I could hold a gun. Take my opinion as you wish(and correct me if I am wrong!).

$0.02
Miller

[bulldog1261]

The BHP is an excellent gun, considered by many to be the finest pistol ever made. I carried a S&W 39 many years ago and I liked it, was a fine gun. I also have a Beretta 92 which is a very good gun despite what many guys are saying. The only thing I don't like about it is the slide mounted de****er/safety. In the "heat of the moment" I find it difficult to NOT activate it during a reload. I think that if it's properly maintained,not passed around from guy to guy and the proper magazines are used it's one of the best. The gun that I like the most however, the one that I shoot best is my Sig 226. I don't know why but I just shoot better with it than any other gun I own.

[Burner1]

The gun that I like the most however, the one that I shoot best is my Sig 226. I don't know why but I just shoot better with it than any other gun I own

Same here Bulldog. It's like puting on a well fitted glove ever time ya pick it up. It feels like its part of ya. What I feel it all comes down too. Is finding the weapon that fits your particular need and comfort. If your not comfortable with a particular weapon, you won't shoot as well. It should be as natural as pointing a finger. Eveyone is different. Everyone's situations are different and bodies are different. As long as you have a accurate weapon that is reliable and fits your needs and the situations you may face..I think you can't go wrong...Its just a matter of picking the right tool for the job..and thats all it is...Just a tool! I'll be it a tool that you grow very attached too...but a tool none the less. Its like your best friend and we will all defend our best friend to the end.....

[millerc]

There's a gun club close by that rent's out all sorts of pistols, including the Beretta 92 and Sig 226. After reading the past 2 posts I feel the need to shoot them! I know that there is a certain work-in time for ANY gun before you can keep it in the 10 range but I will still get an idea. I'll be savin' my pennies so I can buy mass-ammo to shoot the hell out of em and I will report in after this happens. Thanks for the input on the S&W 39 bulldog.

millerman

[bulldog1261]

Thanks for the input on the S&W 39 bulldog

FWIW, the S&W 39 is an old model and I'm sure they don't make it anymore. If you wanted one I'm sure you could p/u a used one. IIRC, it doesn't have a firing pin block so keep that in mind.

[millerc]

FWIW, the S&W 39 is an old model and I'm sure they don't make it anymore. If you wanted one I'm sure you could p/u a used one. IIRC, it doesn't have a firing pin block so keep that in mind.


I was curious about personal experience with the 39 because I have read books about people using them and it appealed to me. Never knew that it doesn't have a firing pin block but it does not suprise me, better to be safe than sorry. Thanks again.

miller

[Fred2621]

REAL SIMPLE...it aint the size, it's what hit inside matters !! As for weapons, it is the one you train with all the time to get the job done.

[Doc76]

This is the second post I seen you trashing Police. Why do you have it in your profile you want to be a cop?

Doc76